Stop paying credit cards. Give yourself a bailout!!

Quote from jueco2005:

In real terms SAVINGS does not exist. It is just future consumption. All savings is done based on possible future consumption.

Our present financial sytem sees savings as an evil. One of its main foundations is the fallacy that past depressions and recessions is because people SAVED TOO MUCH for no aparent reason.

Right, but it's GOVERNMENT who sees "too much savings" as evil.

As usual, it's not "savings are the problem"... it's GOVERNMENT. If the government spent within its means and ran no deficits, the "savings rate"... whether high or low... would be of no consequence.
 
Quote from Scataphagos:

Right, but it's GOVERNMENT who sees "too much savings" as evil.

As usual, it's not "savings are the problem"... it's GOVERNMENT.

Even worse is who is behind "Government."
 
Companies want you to spend all of your money. That way, it increases their sales, and you get to keep working forever being a debt slave just to keep up with the damn Jones family. I can't stand the Jones family. I rather save and invest; let the Jones family go broke buying a mcmansion, granite countertops, a new inground pool, and a new car every 2 years. How do they do it? They are in debt up to their eyeballs.
 
Bubbles existed before the 50's and 60's, today though they have much more frequently

Quote from Scataphagos:

In the 50s and 60s, before credit cards, people SAVED until they could afford things.... and we didn't have ANY of the financial troubles we have today.
 
Quote from Fireplace:

Bubbles existed before the 50's and 60's, today though they have much more frequently

How are most bubbles started and promoted.. and by whom?
 
Quote from jueco2005:

12,000.00
Only $12,000?

I had $11,500 in debt when I worked at a grocery store for $8.50 an hour.

If I can pay off my debt with that kind of wage, anyone can.

Cancel the cable and cellphone. Don't go to the bar(unless someone else is buying). Conserve your driving. Be responsible and put your life on hold for two years while you stop being a douchebag and man up.

That grocery store job isn't good enough for you? Nobody want's to hear it. No excuses. Get a job. They are out there, even during these times.

It's not that hard. Simply pay $500.00 + interest each month. That will only take you 2 years to pay that $12,000 off. Move in with mom if you have to.
 
Quote from Buzzed:

Only $12,000?

I had $11,500 in debt when I worked at a grocery store for $8.50 an hour.

If I can pay off my debt with that kind of wage, anyone can.

Cancel the cable and cellphone. Don't go to the bar(unless someone else is buying). Conserve your driving. Be responsible and put your life on hold for two years while you stop being a douchebag and man up.

That grocery store job isn't good enough for you? Nobody want's to hear it. No excuses. Get a job. They are out there, even during these times.

It's not that hard. Simply pay $500.00 + interest each month. That will only take you 2 years to pay that $12,000 off. Move in with mom if you have to.

What the hell have you been smoking???

IF you were so driven to really make a change in yourself you would not have to get a job at 8.50.

Why dont you take all those drastic measures, get a degree and find a real job. Maybe you wont even need to have debt at all.

Never In my life did I work for such a low wage.
 
'ya know... I defaulted and learned so much about how to not pay, how to clean up credit records, who to countersue.... If I default again and make a small fortune doing it and write a book about it, I suppose that would incriminate me if intent could be proven... but the penalties might be more than offset by the rewards... hmmm... could be fun.. or I could just enjoy my new squeaky clean credit reputation and let it go at that.... it's a tough choice really...

My relationship to the reporting agencies, the lenders, the collectors, etc.. is the same as that of Jessee James to the Railroads and he wound up shot so maybe I'll go with the satisfaction of having a great credit report... I'm reading these posts by these self righteous people here and thinking "yes, one of them would shoot you in the back"

I'm sort of seeing that the Lord has given a lot of people a Jubilee year... people are living without paying mortgages[at least for a time], getting debts cancelled... it's sort of cool...
 
Quote from Scataphagos:

Layaway = saving before buying.

Of course people need a mortgage to buy a home.. but back then most had to make a down payment and to "qualify" by income... we didn't have inflation problems either. (The only time we have inflation problems is when the government wants to "get something for nothing" without the people realizing how or how badly they are being hosed. You know, kind of like RIGHT NOW!)

The only reason we abandoned those practices... GOVERNMENT GREED! And as a result, STUPIDITY AND RECKLESSNESS WITH CREDIT! :(

People didn't use financing to buy houses so much in the early 20th century, the average age of a first time homebuyer was 51 years... then it progressed to borrowing to buy, then it further progressed to borrowing on the equity and even speculating on future equity... it's more than most people can cope with... I'd sleep better in a paid for house and that's my goal... I have a rental with a mortgage that's a little upside down but breakeven on cash flow and I'm happy with that but the one I live in should be paid for...
 
Quote from Sandybestdog:

Joe and Bob grow up together. They are both smart kids and do good in school. Joe gets into Harvard and Bob goes to Yale. Joe fudges his numbers a little on the financial aid forms to make himself look like a poor helpless person, so he gets free tuition. Bob comes from a middle class family whose parents have paid taxes for years, so the government assumes his parents can chip in and so he gets nothing. Bob says it’s worth it because when he graduates, he’ll get that great job and pay back the 100k in student loans he’ll have to take out.

They both graduate and Joe gets a job at JPMorgan and Bob lands one at Bear Stearns. They both work hard and start making some money. Then one day Bob finds out his company is gone and he’s suddenly out of a job. He doesn’t panic because he managed to save 6 months of living expenses. Combine that with the $350 a week in unemployment benefits he gets, and he’ll be able to survive for awhile. He starts hitting the job market. He sends out countless resumes. Most give him the same response, “don’t you know we’re in the middle of a recession? We’re not hiring.”

Meanwhile Joe is doing great. He’s making lots of money now, mostly due to the fact that JPMorgan is picking up great bargains for penny’s on the dollar and forcing the government and the Fed to secure all those assets. Bob on the other hand, has almost depleted his savings. One day, he has the choice of paying his mortgage or credit card. He picks the mortgage and manages to pay his credit card bill 10 days later. When he goes to pay, he notices his interest rate was jacked up to 28%, along with a $39 late fee. He calls the company and explains the situation, but they don’t care and refuse to lower his rate back to where it was because they now deem that he is a greater risk.

A month goes by and Bob decides to not pay his credit card for now, because the whole payment will just go to interest and he’ll never pay it off that way. Then, his daughter feels sick one day and the doctor says she needs an appendicitus. But because the COBRA on the health insurance plan from his old job was $800 a month, he decided to forgo the insurance and assumed he could get another job before anything major happened. Instead, he will now have to finance the 15k operation with the hosipital.

More time goes by, and Bob realizes getting a job in the financial field is tough now, so perhaps he needs to look elsewhere. Realizing he has little skills to perform another kind of job, he thinks going back to school is a good idea. He’s shocked when he sees how much tuition has skyrocketed in the past 10 years. He fills out the financial aid forms, but they just laugh at him because his tax return shows he made 80k last year. He looks to take out more loans, but they deny him. Afterall, how are you going to pay money back with a job you don’t have?

Finally the call comes through. He gets an interview. He goes there and they like him. They’re about to offer him a job, and do a background check as a formality. It is then that they discover his trashed credit history. They tell him they can’t offer him the job because, afterall, how can they expect him to be loyal when he can’t even pay his bills on time.

Desperate, Bob sees bankruptcy as a possibility. But then he remembers that the 75k left on his student loans doesn’t come off in a bankruptcy, so it won’t do much good. Finally, just to make some money, he goes down to the local pizza joint and starts working as a driver. At least he can make a little money. Soon, he mangages to get another interview. They see how long he’s been out of a job and asks him what he’s been doing in the meantime. Bob comes out with the truth and admits that after looking for several months, he finally started deliverying pizza just to make some money. The interviewer hears that and says they’ll call him if they can offer him something. But they never will, because they heard he delivers pizza, so they assume he’s a complete loser. How are they supposed to hire someone like that?

People on this thread like TraderAntiChrist and the like, will use their narrow minded simplistic logic to obviously come to the conclusion that Joe is a hard working guy who gets paid well because of the so called “value” he brings to this world. Meanwhile, Bob is a lazy, pathetic, worthless loser who thinks he’s entitled to everything. He is obviously broke because of his poor choices. He deserves to be thrown in debtors jail and live a life of poverty. When he attempts to get back up and try again, you people will hurl insults and try to kick him back down, just to make sure he’s had enough.

Of course the difference between these two people are actually very small. But one is living a great life and one is not. How they got there doesn’t matter to people who spout their simplistic, unattainable logic. Sure there are people who abuse the system, and they shouldn’t be allowed to, but a lot of people are just finding themselves in bad situations. Maybe this thread wasn’t the best place tell a story like this, as it seems that some here may be deliberately trying to not pay their debt, but the amount of good, hard working people who had one or two things go wrong that spiraled out of control greatly outnumbers those that abused the system.

excellent post, thank you.
 
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