Stop losses. Are they the tools of winners or losers?

[timewarner2]

Stops are a sickness, they are a sign of WEAKNESS.

The sickness of stops attracts the predators that feed on the weak.

99% of you are simply parroting what you read and what the the market machine taught you. YOU are on the wrong path!!

Remember, the marketmachine is YOUR ENEMY.

DO not let you ENEMY know you are SICK/WEAK by using stops.

STOPS ARE A TRUE SIGN OF SICKNESS.

AVOID AT ALL COSTS

TImeWarner2

 

[timewarner2]

Quote from ES.Dreamer:

Whatever you say.

ESD

Not wise with your inheritance!

 

[Now is Now]

Quote from timewarner2:


99% of you are simply parroting what you read and what the the market machine taught you. YOU are on the wrong path!!

[/B]

One of two things become evident with your statement...you either don't trade real money or you are not a successful trader.

Re read what I said ...If one has an edge...

Nexen, what you have stated is true...I could been a bit more clearer....

NiN

 

[NoDoji]

Quote from Now is Now:

Personally, I have a predetermined stop for each trade...get pissed when I get tipped and reverses,but I also recognise a small loss is great...the alternative not so great

In my trading, when very small stop losses are triggered and the trade then starts to move in what would've been my favor, I usually get right back in. I used to sometimes trade stocks in a certain direction based on a strong opinion and I would get in right away with a wide stop, or with the intention of starting a position and adding to it if it ran against me. Then when my max loss was hit I'd be pissed and move onto a different stock, or get the feeling I wanted to revenge trade and "get it back".

Now I'm VERY patient in waiting for only the best setups. When I trade the best setups I can place a very tight stop with little risk of getting stopped out and if I'm stopped out, it's pretty much a scratch trade and when I do catch the real move it will more than make up for a few small losses.

One day in early Sept I made 45 trades and lost $500 (I have a very small account and I was normally making 3-5 trades a day at the time). It was death by a thousand stops. All my losses went to max and I cut all my winners short. Instead of waiting for a really great setup I just overtraded.

That day was an eye opener for me. I spent a lot of time mostly sim trading after that, working specifically on patience and stop management. As a result I've been consistently profitable with one losing day ($40) over the past 2 1/2 months.

 

[telience]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of stop losses either.

Of course, it means you have to use more vigorous money management.

Oversized bets + no stop losses = high risk of ruin.

 

[ammo]

Quote from NoDoji:

In my trading, when very small stop losses are triggered and the trade then starts to move in what would've been my favor, I usually get right back in. I used to sometimes trade stocks in a certain direction based on a strong opinion and I would get in right away with a wide stop, or with the intention of starting a position and adding to it if it ran against me. Then when my max loss was hit I'd be pissed and move onto a different stock, or get the feeling I wanted to revenge trade and "get it back".

Now I'm VERY patient in waiting for only the best setups. When I trade the best setups I can place a very tight stop with little risk of getting stopped out and if I'm stopped out, it's pretty much a scratch trade and when I do catch the real move it will more than make up for a few small losses.

One day in early Sept I made 45 trades and lost $500 (I have a very small account and I was normally making 3-5 trades a day at the time). It was death by a thousand stops. All my losses went to max and I cut all my winners short. Instead of waiting for a really great setup I just overtraded.

That day was an eye opener for me. I spent a lot of time mostly sim trading after that, working specifically on patience and stop management. As a result I've been consistently profitable with one losing day ($40) over the past 2 1/2 months.

bravo, quick learner

 

[Now is Now]

She is getting there..

My stops are not skinny, but my my profit goal is set to 3 times stop loss.

 

[wjk]

Quote from timewarner2:


STOPS ARE A TRUE SIGN OF SICKNESS.

Do you have a plan for power outages that may occur just as the market is turning against your play? It often takes an eternity to get a broker on the phone just when you need them the most. This fact alone provides an incentive to have a protective stop, though such a stop might be beyond the range of a stop used to enforce discipline.

A hard stop may also be used simply because it may get you out of the play at a better price than you might get chasing an exit. There was a 50 point spike in the YM one day recently. The time it took from the stop to become a market order resulted in a fill with 7 points of slippage (first time I've had more than 1 point slippage with IB). Had I tried to exit manually, I’m fairly certain the slippage would have been much greater. Again, I would classify such stops as protection against the unforeseen event, not as a measure of discipline.

 

[timewarner2]

Quote from wjk:

Do you have a plan for power outages that may occur just as the market is turning against your play? It often takes an eternity to get a broker on the phone just when you need them the most. This fact alone provides an incentive to have a protective stop, though such a stop might be beyond the range of a stop used to enforce discipline.

A hard stop may also be used simply because it may get you out of the play at a better price than you might get chasing an exit. There was a 50 point spike in the YM one day recently. The time it took from the stop to become a market order resulted in a fill with 7 points of slippage (first time I've had more than 1 point slippage with IB). Had I tried to exit manually, I’m fairly certain the slippage would have been much greater. Again, I would classify such stops as protection against the unforeseen event, not as a measure of discipline.

Yes, I have redundant systems. What happened after the 50 point spike? Did it come back?? see what i mean?

If you are operating from a position of strength in both edge and capital-- STOPS ARE A SIGN OF WEAKNESS.


Truth is, most of you guys are undercapitalized for this game and have no real edge. you will lose with or without stops. stops will just make it faster for you to lose. remember, we are dealing with a non linear market, it oscillates always.

thanks,

TW2

 

[wjk]

Quote from timewarner2:

What happened after the 50 point spike? Did it come back?? see what i mean?

You make some good points, but if you find yourself on the wrong side of a trade, do you always wait for the reversion? Do you have a loss percentage that will tell you it's time to get out?

Certainly you have a price where you will reverse or exit a play that is not going your desired direction defined by price or time action. How do you define that exit?