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Stop losses. Are they the tools of winners or losers?
- Thread starter peilthetraveler
- Start date
Welcome to ET.
Quote from jprad:
A fixed 2 tick cushion seems pretty arbitrary.
You might want to backtest one simple change; the stop is only triggered once the current bar closes beyond the stop or after some multiple of volatility beyond the stop is touched.
Just an arbitrary example... Point trying to be made was how to have an order filled on a price pull back than first pass through.
averaiging down crude is wrong trading. crude will not go to zero, yes. I think you do not know future trading.
future tradig is like bucket shop. 1 contract crude's margin is around $5400 currently, that means if you account is around that size, you went broken or wiped out if crude goes against you $5.4 move. (highly levearged)
future tradig is like bucket shop. 1 contract crude's margin is around $5400 currently, that means if you account is around that size, you went broken or wiped out if crude goes against you $5.4 move. (highly levearged)
Quote from PiggyBank:
Not trying to start an arguement, but what exactly is noobish about that approach? He said that they have hard stops in all their shorts, but in oil futures, they were willing to avg down because they are getting a better price. If their risk is managed properly (as in oil could go to zero, and they would survive) this makes way more sense than than taking small losses all the way down, oil is not going to zero. I would bet OPM on that to.
Is this stop placed at the time of entry?
Yes I place my objective then my stop. Then entry price
When market is trading around perceived
support or resistance. Depending on the activity at or near the price I will determine an objective and side to take. I will place an objective then a stop above or below my anticipated entry if price activity warrants I place a stop to be put in the trade. It has to be extending or reversing in my direction to actually be filled. I hope that is clearer
Yes I place my objective then my stop. Then entry price
When market is trading around perceived
support or resistance. Depending on the activity at or near the price I will determine an objective and side to take. I will place an objective then a stop above or below my anticipated entry if price activity warrants I place a stop to be put in the trade. It has to be extending or reversing in my direction to actually be filled. I hope that is clearer
s this stop placed at the time of entry?
Yes I place my objective then my stop. Then entry price
Do you ever adjust your stop in mid
trade?
Yes
Actually I scratch quite a few trades too just after entry if volume goes away. Objective can change But I usually move stop if it becomes profitable by a handle or six tics or so and objective to mid pivot
If move stalls Alot of my trades are fast runs to a perceived mean prices. or high volume areas rarely a breakout type trade
Yes I place my objective then my stop. Then entry price
Do you ever adjust your stop in mid
trade?
Yes
Actually I scratch quite a few trades too just after entry if volume goes away. Objective can change But I usually move stop if it becomes profitable by a handle or six tics or so and objective to mid pivot
If move stalls Alot of my trades are fast runs to a perceived mean prices. or high volume areas rarely a breakout type trade
yes, that is the point I saw.
" a very disciplined methodology" and still losing money, very ironic. people do not understand how to trade will think stop loss is Jesus.
one point I do not agree is about "let the market get you in and out", no prediction is involved. this is too ideal. the market most time will create just non-senses, will not tell you to get out or get in. if that kind of simple, every one will be market wizard. if you can let the market tell you to get out and get in, then the stop loss should work. but actually stop loss does not reflect market volatility, news/fundamental change.
I was trading gold GC DEC this friday, I got up at 4:30am pittsburgh time, I saw 1133, that is the number I noticed it as a strong support, I should buy it (I did not). then I waited and waited, the market just shoots then down, it struggled around 1143~1137+, it went down to 1137+ several times, did the market try to tell you: we will break down? no, when I put a resistance line, I saw a triangle pattern, I kind of tried to short the moring low (it went there three times), but the market cheated or fooled, set up those short sellers, I saw the market actually tried to break up, I bought it in the dip to the morning low at third time dip to the morning low. if you have a stop loss, maybe just one tick, you are out and you missed the wagon.
the market will not tell you anything, the only thing you can do is trust yourself or judgement. if the market is shooting, does it tell you it is peaking? no, it may continues its rally or just at the time you buy, it stops and retraces! the trick part is your sound objective analysis or judgement.
I saw NQ dec did the same thing afternoon.
mechnically using a stop loss definitely will let you become a loser.
" a very disciplined methodology" and still losing money, very ironic. people do not understand how to trade will think stop loss is Jesus.
one point I do not agree is about "let the market get you in and out", no prediction is involved. this is too ideal. the market most time will create just non-senses, will not tell you to get out or get in. if that kind of simple, every one will be market wizard. if you can let the market tell you to get out and get in, then the stop loss should work. but actually stop loss does not reflect market volatility, news/fundamental change.
I was trading gold GC DEC this friday, I got up at 4:30am pittsburgh time, I saw 1133, that is the number I noticed it as a strong support, I should buy it (I did not). then I waited and waited, the market just shoots then down, it struggled around 1143~1137+, it went down to 1137+ several times, did the market try to tell you: we will break down? no, when I put a resistance line, I saw a triangle pattern, I kind of tried to short the moring low (it went there three times), but the market cheated or fooled, set up those short sellers, I saw the market actually tried to break up, I bought it in the dip to the morning low at third time dip to the morning low. if you have a stop loss, maybe just one tick, you are out and you missed the wagon.
the market will not tell you anything, the only thing you can do is trust yourself or judgement. if the market is shooting, does it tell you it is peaking? no, it may continues its rally or just at the time you buy, it stops and retraces! the trick part is your sound objective analysis or judgement.
I saw NQ dec did the same thing afternoon.
mechnically using a stop loss definitely will let you become a loser.
Quote from jbales63:
I have traded almost 15 yrs for myself and a member firm in Chicago. and over 20 in industry. And seen huge accounts bleed out slowly "with a very disciplined methodology". A stop loss order at a price that is determine as a max financial loss or somehow not static to price activity is probably worse than none. My experience is that a stop at a price determined by market activity not a threshold of an account or trader. And they can be tight if you entered a trade at these type of prices. That type of stop has saved plenty.My goal while trading is to let the market put me in a trade as well as out. With as little prediction used on my part as possible. If anyone knew positively where the S&P was going to trade at 8:45 ......NO one would work..LOL.