Stop Losses are for Losers

Quote from marketsurfer:

what you are suggesting is churning--- stopped out due to market noise, jumping back in, noise stop out again. if your positioned sized properly, one can let the market tell them when to get out instead of noise churning with fixed stops---- just like your BROKER and MARKET INFRASTRUCTURE demands from you.

THINK!

surf

Morning Surf.
One of my neighbors farms almost 8K acres, hedges and speculates to give balance to his operation. On that note, a couple years ago he complained to me that he was constantly being stopped out of his positions. He ranted on and on about those stupid floor traders and how they would search out his specific stop orders and fill them and then the market would explode and his would be left holding the bag. We both know that they don't "look" for "his" orders.

I showed him how to read the longer term support and resistance levels the markets create inside each of the contract months and to place his stops "outside" of those S/R ranges instead of arbitarily as he had done in the past. Since he has been applying this technique his hedges and spec trades are stopped out a whole lot less and his profits have greatly increased. He went from an 65% stop ration to 20% and those times he is stopped out it is usually on the extreme tops or extreme bottoms of those contract moves. Areas where being stopped out is a benefit.

What I mean by that is, agriculture producers are usually only able to watch the charts either at the begining of the day or end of the day after their other more critical work is done. If an extreme oscillation is created and a pullback starts in the middle of the day, a stop will protect profit that they had already locked in. I suggest adjusting stps in Swing or Position trades either off the high or low of each day, respectful of the trade or hedge direction or off a faster oscillation.
 
Quote from marketsurfer:



if you trade FX with dealers hard stops are SUICIDAL.


surf

Disagree. Hard and tight stops are ESPECIALLY effective in FX as opposed to SIFs which indeed tend to have a lot of stop running games and demand you to be smart with your stop placement.

If your FX dealer is fishy and moves the quotes as much as say 5 pips only to run your stop, it takes literally several seconds to proove the fact of wrong quotation and give crooks a good lesson...

From the other side if quotes really move as much as 5 pips in such a deep market as FX it means that there is some real force behind the move. But don't you think that such a move in a market mostly driven by huge banks is only aimed to hit a stop order on your 10 lot retail level position? :D
 
Quote from marketsurfer:

if you are positioned sized properly, there is no need for hard stops.

hard stops make no sense given the fluid nature of the market.

how many times have you been stopped out, only to see price rebound near or at your stop in your direction? savvy traders, who understand the game, know these facts and that position sizing and money management is key NOT broker/churn shop promoted stop losses.


if you trade FX with dealers hard stops are SUICIDAL.

Wow, surf... how can you be so wrong? You're wrong so often it defies logic - one would think that you would be right once in a while, just as a matter of probability.

:)

The fact is that stops are especially necessary in FX trading.

But anyhow, with regard to the bizarre idea that good position sizing obviates the need for a stop, as I said before, if you have ever closed out a trade at a loss, you use stops.

And as we all know, surf.... you have closed out a great many trades at a loss in your trading career.

Even if they were paper trades

: )
 
Stop loss orders are used to remove emotion from your trades. They are also a good idea if you are trading something that is highly leveraged. If you know your technical analysis you should be able to pick a good place for a stop based on how long you plan to hold the trade. (Position, daytrade)
 
I have to disagree with this, I put stops on short positions because you never know if something pops. I'd brather know my stop would be executed than holding onto a losing position that may get worse
 
stop losses are for losers?
right up there with letting losses snowball is for winners.

1087.gif
 
I have been day trading since 1998. I first traded stocks. I was up $42,000 one month and lost all of that and another $5,000 the next month. I think that it is imperative to have stops in place in case the trade you are in doesn't work out like you think. I had a day trading friend once that enter a short on a stock and continued to justify why he was short in the stock (at the time he entered, the chart was in a downtrend). The stock started to go up, he continued to hold justifing his position daily. Last I heard, he was down $750,000 and had a margin call and had to liquidate. BTW, the stock he thought was going down in 1998, a little stock called yahoo. Taught me a very valuable lesson. Stop losses for me are a no brainer.
Regards
 
The longer this thread plays out the more it solidifies the need for stops. I trade once a week with my attorney (he now trades full time). He trades with a 6 figure account and make a 5 figure income each week, consistently. He would no sooner trade without stops than go back to being an attorney full time. Sometimes common sense just simply plays out.
 
Quote from powerfade:

Wow, surf... how can you be so wrong? You're wrong so often it defies logic - one would think that you would be right once in a while, just as a matter of probability.

:)

The fact is that stops are especially necessary in FX trading.



: )


are you crazy? FX dealers love and promote hard fixed stops--- you are trading against them, why play into their game?

you will lose. many times stops are taking out, and it aint shown on TS or chart--- are they allowed to do it, sure, you signed their contract.

surf
 
Here here to prologic's logic. If you have traded for any length of time, and read any trading books, taking losses are the REAL key to making money day trading, IMO.
R
 
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