Stock Market Rigged? Tune in to "60 Minutes" tonight

[Bob111]

I remember being home in front of my computer watching cnbc and talking to a friend on the phone about WTF was just happening..

i remember Mark Haines at CNBC hiding under the table ,wearing military helmet on the day,when market is about to open after 9/11

 

[actionzip54]

It's not irrelevant because the parasitic HFT siphoning trickles down thru all markets... stocks and futures alike.

Order-flooding and bid-lifting prevents guys from filling 100 shares, 1000 shares, 5000 shares at their targeted prices. Some of those orders never fill because price moves away & outside the targeted fill zone. What would have been true liquidity in the market if those stock orders were all filled, is instead a liquidity net-drain due to HFTs spoofing and moving price artificially from the true bid/ask market participants while working to front-run order flow.

Day after week after month after year of that shit, guys either toss the towel or scale down size by force. Today's news talked about ICE and NYSE downsizing due to dwindled trading volumes. Oh really? And why is volume down at all? See the HFT chop-churn examples above.

Now over in the futures markets, it's a trickle-down mess. Russell 2000 emini futures are flying all over the charts on 1, 2, 4 lots trades. Try filling a measly 10-lot and see if you don't have your ass handed to you with only 2-3 contracts filled on the runners, all 10 filled in the chop and the stops all slip to boot.

Why? Because liquidity is nil with algos hammering the tape. Used to be nothing to click in 10 - 20 Russell contracts at a clip and not slip at all and fill them all. Now if you click in a 20-lot, you are the Russell market entirely for several strikes.

Any individual trader who is not defending HFTs because they are part of the front-run gravy train simply don't understand what the parasitic effect is on overall markets. It's to the point where you can't get filled on size unless you accept brutal slippage in, out or both in any but the most liquid markets (i.e ES). Guess who is siphoning that slippage while dictating whether you fill size or not?

If all HFT trading were shut down tomorrow, all markets would return to much more normal and liquid behavior in one helluva hurry.

Lol first time trading size bra?

 

[zdreg]

if traders had to depend on ET members for liquidity they would be in a different job.
stop whining and trade equities where hft traders are not involved.

 

[austinp]

Lol first time trading size bra?

first time in years with TF... I was under the illusion that bid/ask size actually mean you could fill bricks there.

have you tried lately, yourself?

 

[Compulsive]

.......


Now over in the futures markets, it's a trickle-down mess. Russell 2000 emini futures are flying all over the charts on 1, 2, 4 lots trades. Try filling a measly 10-lot and see if you don't have your ass handed to you with only 2-3 contracts filled on the runners, all 10 filled in the chop and the stops all slip to boot.

Why? Because liquidity is nil with algos hammering the tape. Used to be nothing to click in 10 - 20 Russell contracts at a clip and not slip at all and fill them all. Now if you click in a 20-lot, you are the Russell market entirely for several strikes.


.....

I usually do not scalp for but when giving a good opportunity and the set up is forming, I will. But when I got out with a resting MIT, I did not get filled all together. It was split 4 an 6

 

[beefcaketrade]

The market has been rigged since its very inception many decades ago. This is not news. I think everybody who trades the market, professionally or semi-professionally, or as a mom & pop retail investor, should be knowledgeable that the stock market is a game with its rules. There will be players better than you or have greater advantage than you. If you participate, you agree to risk capital to make capital. You may make money if you are good or lucky, or you may lose capital, but thats what it takes to play in this game. If you are unhappy with it, there are FDIC insured savings accounts. Thank you. Signed Wall Street.

 

[austinp]

The market has been rigged since its very inception many decades ago. This is not news. I think everybody who trades the market, professionally or semi-professionally, or as a mom & pop retail investor, should be knowledgeable that the stock market is a game with its rules.

yes, we know this. Now the question is, how far to one side does the balance tip before the entire ship rolls over?

if anyone here is gullible enough to think true market liquidity cannot be cut in half or worse as time goes on, they are deluded. Nothing at all stops markets from losing more real participants, dwindling down to much lower true volume levels until the shell that remains is untradeable for all.

there is always a tipping point of no return to everything. markets are not there yet, but they could get there in time. No reason in the world why not, at the current accelerated pace of HFTs consuming all

 

[austinp]

I usually do not scalp for but when giving a good opportunity and the set up is forming, I will. But when I got out with a resting MIT, I did not get filled all together. It was split 4 an 6

today has been rather quiet compared to last week and the week before of greater volatility. During many of those spiked moves, 10-lot stop-market waiting to fill on pullbacks and/or open trade exit were commonly partial fills in and slipped fills out, or both.

when volatility ramps up, TF thins right out to anorexia levels

 

[BobbiDigital]

If these HFT's are MM's why not base the minimum quote size on their daily volume? It's because 'bait and switch' doesn't work for large traders anymore themselves. Regulators prefer the problem seem much more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[piezoe]

The Germans have already done something about HFT. We should pay attention and learn what we can from their experience, once we know the result.