Still Not Sure How I Will Vote

[Ricter]

Quote from oldtime:

I'm going to vote for the party that will end medicare once and for all

it was a bad idea to begin with that has only gotten worse

We should do the same for the VA, for the same reason.

 

[bigarrow]

Quote from oldtime:

I'm going to vote for the party that will end medicare once and for all

it was a bad idea to begin with that has only gotten worse

Then what?

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from bigarrow:

If you have any family members that plan on living to an old age or if you plan to live to an old age vote against the party that proposes vouchers for medicare.

This issue alone should win the election for Obama. Will it? We will find out soon.

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Obviously this won't matter to those who don't have a brain ergo they'll vote for Obama anyway.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from bigarrow:

Then what?

if you get sick in your old age, all your assets will be depleted, until you are poor, then medicaid will kick in, and I'll gladly pay for it

my mother is sitting on a pile of cash that she will never need, and you are paying for her pacemaker

it doesn't make sense

I'm all for helping the poor, but my mother doesn't need it, yet you are giving it to her

and there's a lot of other people out there who do need it

 

[bigarrow]

Quote from oldtime:

if you get sick in your old age, all your assets will be depleted, until you are poor, then medicaid will kick in, and I'll gladly pay for it

my mother is sitting on a pile of cash that she will never need, and you are paying for her pacemaker

it doesn't make sense

I'm all for helping the poor, but my mother doesn't need it, yet you are giving it to her

and there's a lot of other people out there who do need it

Means testing would be OK, not to the extreme you're talking about but with in boundries this is something I think could be used to cut cost. Off topic but you just made an argument for the death tax.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from bigarrow:

Means testing would be OK, not to the extreme you're talking about but with in boundries this is something I think could be used to cut cost. Off topic but you just made an argument for the death tax.

she's already paid taxes on every penny she saved, why penalize her because she loaned it to the US Government instead of spending it at Walmart? I have no problem with her saving her money and passing it on to her kids. I have a problem with you paying for her doctor bills.

 

[Lucrum]

Quote from bigarrow:

....Off topic but you just made an argument for the death tax.

There is no argument for the death tax.

 

[bigarrow]

Quote from oldtime:

she's already paid taxes on every penny she saved, why penalize her because she loaned it to the US Government instead of spending it at Walmart? I have no problem with her saving her money and passing it on to her kids. I have a problem with you paying for her doctor bills.

Every dollar everyone spends has already been taxed, so that argument doesn't hold water. And it isn't a penalty to her, after she's dead she won't give it a second thought.

 

[L-Kabong]

Quote from oldtime:

if you get sick in your old age, all your assets will be depleted, until you are poor, then medicaid will kick in, and I'll gladly pay for it

my mother is sitting on a pile of cash that she will never need, and you are paying for her pacemaker

it doesn't make sense

I'm all for helping the poor, but my mother doesn't need it, yet you are giving it to her

and there's a lot of other people out there who do need it

Well, take your proposal to the next step. You are old, and sick, and you are required to deplete your wealth to pay for your health care. Once you go broke, if you still need health care Medicare kicks in. Supposing after going broke your health stabilizes and you are not in your last year of life. Perhaps you have 10 years left. Then what? You are broke and your now completely dependent, not just for health care, but for all your needs, food, clothing, shelter, etc.


On another note, means testing would reduce expenditures, but it is another form of redistribution. It would become de-facto Medicaid. If health care is a right, it is a right undiminished by one's economic standing.

And means testing would not get at the heart of the issue, which as the elder population bracket bulges, the demand for health care increases almost exponentially while the market for providing health care is not truly competitive and cost effective but rather predatory.

Medicare and medicaid this year are budgeted at 700 billion, while Social Security is about the same. But the tax rates differ by a factor of three: SS taxes are 3x that of Medicare.

Currently, Social security is solvent, but Medicare's outlays are going to quickly deplete its funds. At 700 billion a year, that's about $4,500 per working American. The question becomes do we want to continue to socialize this expense, and if not, how much are we willing to pay?

The only answer I see is that the health industry must find a way to deliver decent efficient health care at reasonable prices, because the country can't afford otherwise. Once we stop paying
outrageous prices for healthcare, my guess is that the health care industry will begin to reform itself.

 

[oldtime]

Quote from bigarrow:

Every dollar everyone spends has already been taxed, so that argument doesn't hold water. And it isn't a penalty to her, after she's dead she won't give it a second thought.

I'm not talking about dollars people spend, I'm talking about dollars people save. She's already paying taxes on the interest and dividends. Now you want to tax her on the principal?

gosh dang man, you are really sick

anything else of mine you want?