Still in College - Any Advice

I wrote, once you know how to read a chart, then look for some holy grail trading method

That was supposed to say then forget about looking for some holy grail method. Holy Grail methods don't exist and don't work, they are scams.

Remember, back and forward test your trade set up to know its expectancy. This will give the confidence to execute with time.
 
Quote from Rex32:

My roommates unlce is a VP at Bear Stearns and he said he could help me get an internship in NYC next summer so I'm pretty excited for that.


I just want to read about a trading careers and have a good amount of knowledge before graduating.
I messed up a lot in High School and I dont want to repeat that in college, and thus far I haven't but now I am trying to make up for it by doing extra work and learning extra things.

Mike
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mikeRex

Be extra polite/helpful to roomate [Uncle] ;
even if you do want to work a trading business yourself.


Take your college rule notebook & write down every day;
open ,high , low ,close , ..........symbol BST price, [bear]
you should learn some thing, & that helps separate you from herd.

And if you are not lazy, write , study & study/ponder every BST monthly close [all data, & i mean all data].

Jack Schwager 3 top trader books are pretty much king of the trading books.

Profitlogic is right do NOT treat trading as a hobby, its not a hobby;
wisdom is profitabke to direct:cool:
 
To trade, a necessary knowledge of the market is necessary. Hence the need for the WSJ and CNBC. Granted, I guess you could trade on pure technicals or buy a "system" and just point and click. But, you don't learn jack shit and you're pretty much useless to any actual trading desk or hedge fund. It sounds like the original poster is coming into this with practically no knowledge, thus the WSJ is a very good starting point.

With a paper trading account, you can leverage what you've learned to a trading environment without the blowups so common with daytraders. Treat trading as a hobby meaning don't get emotional about it. The second you get emotional about your trades, your positions, the market, the second you stop thinking rationally and you start making stupid decisions. 90% of trading is risk management. Paper trading allows you to build your risk management skills without actually risking capital. Granted, there is an added emotional factor once you actually start trading your own cash, but buy making your mistakes early, without risking capital, you're far better off. I'm not saying you randomly throw cash at a trade and hope it produces information. In fact, that wasn't what I was implying at all. I meant to treat the paper account like a real account, and make trades as you would in a real account.

Everything takes time, especially trading. Bottom line, DO NOT expect to live off of daytrading if you have no experience. Get a real job, daytrade in your spare time (such as the asian market when you're not at work). If trading is really for you then transition from your full-time job into something that will get you noticed on a trading desk.


Quote from ProfLogic:

Just to clear some thing up, IMHO:

"Treat trading as a hobby and nothing more." You mean like building model ships? Without focus and determination nothing will come of it.

"Open a paper trading account (Oanda for currencies) and practice without risking your own capital" - Bull, one needs to study the Market for a good long time while learning its intricacies, not flippantly throwing even paper trades at it hoping it will release some sage like information. Trading is a skill and like any career needs to be treated accordingly. It takes years to get and fine tune one's "EDGE".

"Get a subscription to the Wall Street Journal" - Why, do you want him to get a dog and paper train them? The rag is worthless for trading.

"Watch a ton of CNBC" - Why, do you want him to go blind and crazy? Those talking heads are absolutely clueless. I treat it like the comedy channel.

"Search the internet" - Ok, I agree with this one a little.

"Knowledge will come naturally as you immerse yourself in the markets" - This one I stand up and applaud you on but it works only if you stay focused and not take any shortcuts.
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Quote from Ripley:

...also try to transfer out to UPENN. Who goes to PennState to major in Business? :D
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I dont know
Check the USAtoday business school rating

Penn State is top 15

And with a 60M dollar new business building - that is surely to bump us up.
 
http://collegeadmissions.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/laissez-faire-1999-2000.txt

laissez faire rankings.

Its dated. However, if you think that NYU, UCLA, or georgetown stand a shot against amherst, williams, or swarthmore, you'd be sadly mistaken in some graduate application process (law, doc, ect...some kind of non-science/non-phd program)

with that said, I think actual employers, HR, in non-academic related fields pay more attention to other things. like if they know the name of your school. Schools with a local reputation, despite being ranked lower on absolute terms, seem to be able to make shit happen for their graduates. Think University of Michigan vs. Vasser. I doubt anyone in good ole michigan gives a flying fuck about some elite school in NY. Except of course U of M law, business, med, ect. But employers?? I'd be shocked.
 
AOK,
Wow, thats great advice, thanks for the post.
I like the 22% statistics.

Quote from Aok:

1) Finish school. Only 22% of the US population has a 4 year degree. In the coming years as more and more of the middle class is squeezed into oblivion, college degrees will be not a golden key like it used to be, but your application will be round filed without. Grim times ahead.

2) Think strongly about postgrad degrees.Only 2% of ALL US taxpayers earn >$200,000. Do you think more of them are traders or people with advanced degrees?

3) Find a woman to complement your life. Not some high maintenance taker.

4) Buy a house.

5) Have a hobby(ies). Going to the gym is not a hobby. That's how you take care of your body. But what about your soul? I play guitar(badly) but it engages my mind away from trading.

6) In the really, real world, you will feel the pressure to keep up appearances with the Jones'. Dont. Alot of so called intelligent people do not understand you cannot spend more than you make indefinately. Save. And invest part of your savings.

Trading is a very lonely existence and a extremely exacting life. Make sure you are ready because no one who ever accomplished something noteworthy did it by doing something they hated.

Trading is defintely not for everyone.
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Quote from newguy1:

this is interesting, only because i did the opposite of what everyone here is suggesting. I left school for a bit to daytrade. Why? Well i would rather have a "gap" in my resume during college, when on campus recruiting makes landing a job much easier. Secondly, its a good experience. The way I see it, trading will always be there, but on campus recruiting will not. I would hate to graduate, go into daytrading, find out its not for me, then try and find a job. I'd rather try it out (people leave school for all sorts of reasons/study abroad/travel/ect.), find out its not for me, then go back and get a job through on campus recruiting.

What i would hate to see is what I just saw. There are 2 kids from berkley. One was an analyst at Lehman bros, the other some operations guy. They both left their jobs after a 1 1/2 years to work for some literally insane trader for a news advisory. (i don't know if ET lets me bash another site, but just think of Val Kilmer in Top Gun)

They are basically getting scammed; talk of an IPO this, ipo that. No salary, and they are trading their own accounts. They are both very naive; its there first trading job they every applied to. They don't even know what a prop firm is. They try to pull off daytrades with their scottrade accounts with that ridiculous commish! They are working with two other kids that moved from NY and were HS dropouts. They work out of small room in the back of a horse ranch, I shit you not. (granted, the horse ranch is very nice)

Now how is that supposed to look when the guy at Lehman trys to find a job after this daytrading incident? Horrible. (lets put it this way. The "head trader" doesn't use an execution platform. He calls all his order in through a retail broker. RIDICULOUS!

What I would say is this. Figure out if daytrading is for you BEFORE you graduate, unless you can get into a firm that will train you/possibly pay you after graduating. Do not, for the love of god, graduate with your degree and think that its going to land you a job if you fool around daytrading. If you plan on joining a prop with your own capital after graduating, just be damn sure its what you want to do. If you can't figure it out, I'd take some time off to see if its for you. That way if it doesn't work out, you'll always have the option of writing off that experience as an internship/time off during your undergrad when your choices won't be judged as harshly by employers after you graduate.

People will never overlook your mistakes. However, as a general rule, people are more inclined to forgive dumb shit you did in undergrad as opposed to 2 yearsout in the workforce. Just read the other thread about a trader who quit. People on this own message board have been telling this guy on ET to make up a fake company and have his spouse be the secretary and his best friend be the CEO of the dummy company. Despite being incredibly unethical and humiliating (just think of the position your wife is in for god's sake), the fact that people here would even suggest anyone do this should show you JUST HOW DETRIMENTAL it would be to find out daytrading isn't for you AFTER college, after foregoing potential career paths.

The great thing for you is that you've got plenty of time to figure this out before you graduate, however you like (trade as a hobby, join a prop during your summer time, take a semester off, whatever)


good luck man.
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This is absolutely the best advice ever posted towards college kids interested in trading. All you have to do is set aside 1 semesters worth of tuition aside as risk capital, read the trading literature classics, seek out a veteran trader to guide you, and give it a shot for 1-2 years. If you like it then you can finish the remain college credits part-time taking night classes. If you find out trading is not for you then you can finish college and go on to do something you really enjoy. I was I had read this advice while I was in college during the 98-00 boom years. This is the easy path. The more difficult path is to finish college first, get a job to pay off college debt and save up risk capital, quit your job, and try to teach yourself how to trade - you may call yourself a "trader" but your really just unemployed. You only become a trader once you start making money consistently almost every week/month just like you only become a lawyer once you actually start practicing law and a doctor once you start practicing medicine.
 
Bottom Line: You've gotta do what you are passionate about - this is with regard to anything - not just trading. If you feel that you would wake up everyday excited to go to work as a daytrader, then try it. Active market involvement is so hard and provides such a thin margin of error, that I advise anyone who isn't 100% passionate about it, to try thier luck elsewhere for a steady paycheck. The reality is that you probably won't know this until you go work for someone and hate it.

That said: If you are 100% passionate about trading for a living and aren't doing it solely for the money, the experience is like none other.

I'd also like to echo previous posters who alluded to the abundance of dubious operations and shady firms out there. You must recognize that any schmoe can open an account and start an LLC and call themselves a trading firm. You've gotta approach the firm you choose as your first trade. See the forest from the trees - if it looks/seems like obvious hype by a con-artist it probably is. Stacked bids are often a contraindiction of upward movement.
 
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