Steps to becoming a great trader

[Eric215]

Quote from cabletrader:

lol, this isn't a competition to see who can be the most helpful you know, it's a discussion forum

Your questions are slightly pointless because whether I'm consistently profitable or not is not relevant, sensible people should have the ability to evaluate information for themsleves and store away bits they find useful or helpful and dismiss the rest, wheat from the chaff so to speak.

My opinions and observations are based on personal experience of what I found worked for me and others, it doesn't automatically follow that it's either the best approach or that it will work as effectively for everyone, it would be conceited to believe one's opinion is the only one which matters, no-one has the monopoly on ways to achieve consistent profitability.

Everyone, even the likes of Soros, has potential for improvement and it's that continued honing of one's skills that keeps interest alive, trading (and life in general come to that) would be terminally boring if we rested on our laurels and didn't try to improve ourselves.

In the interest of diplomacy I'll resist the temptation to express my opinion of your trading experience based on information from your previous posts

Well first off, I applaud your restraint in not using insults. To be honest I thought they were coming.

My response to you then is this. I am very profitable and consistently so for the past three years now. I do not have a job and I have not had one for over two years now. I support myself completely off of trading my own and other people’s money in the FX market everyday. If I don’t make money, I don’t eat. The advice or opinions that I give are not something that I read in a book or are they from a teacher, but they are gotten form my actual experiences on getting to the level that I am at. I don’t claim to know everything and I have a ways to go in this career but I have learned things along the way that can be helpful to new or unprofitable traders. There is also a level of trading to which I am ignorant; I have no idea what it takes to manage a 500 million dollar fund. I would take any advice I could if I ever get to that level. So, with all due respect, just try to keep an open mind and realize that there may be things that you don’t know that you don’t know. Another words, if you knew what it took to be a successful consistently profitable trader then you would probably already be there. I have actually gotten to the level in which I am helping other traders to get too. So your constant arguing with me about “what it takes” is a bit like the college ball player telling the new players that the MLB player doesn’t know what he is talking about (although I will admit I would be still considered a rookie because three years isn't that long). This doesn't mean that you can't keep starting these mental boxing matches with me, because quite frankly, it helps me crystallize my ideas a bit. If you ever want to discuss your trading with me through PM, feel free (although it often takes me a while to respond) and if you really are a serious FX trader, we could share ideas. Peace.

 

[Eric215]

Quote from cabletrader:

All evidence to the contrary from what I've read so far, you actually sound like you're trying to convince yourself, in all probability if you were in fact any of those things you would not feel the need to keep repeating them to try to convince others, you would be confident that people would see the wisdom in your posts by themselves.

Like I said to you before, anyone can say they're anything on the internet, in other words you can present yourself as whatever your fantasies desire. Whether it's convincing or not is a different matter!

Truly successful people don't feel the need to tell everyone how successful they are all the time, in fact if anything they tend to be rather modest about their success.

Whatever floats your boat big guy, as long as you're happy!

Have a great day, I'm going to do some trading now

Ok well, I gave it my best try with you. The reason I stated the above facts is so that people would know where I am coming from and if they want to talk to a successful FX trader they can. Also, because it gets frustrating to argue with people about stuff that I have already gone through and kind of "been there done that", but they (you) seem to think they know better even though you aren't there yet. I am never insulting on these forums and I conduct myself maturely and, contrary to what you believe, I always tell the truth based on my experience. I will say though that it is definitely people like yourself, who is not a successful trader, that constantly argues with someone who is, that would keep successful traders out of here. I post something that is based on truth and actual experience and then I have to constantly defend it from unsuccessful loud mouths who criticize and insult without actually having any authority on the subject. It's actually quite baffling and hilarious when you think about it. When I was new I never argued like I knew how to be successful, but I listened and asked questions. Maybe that's why you are where you're at and I'm where I'm at. You are like the gurus who write books because they "think" they know how it's done but can't seem to actually do it. Good luck with that.

 

[achilles28]

I'm with Cable on this one.

The greater % of market movement understood, the less utility are 'psychology'/self awareness/centering techniques.

The inverse is also true.

Consider that most profitable traders only churn maybe 5-10% a month. They trade set-ups. Wait for their ducks to line up, then execute. They have a line on maybe 5% of hands dealt, and fold on the rest.

That other 95% is what f*cks traders up, psychologically.

That lurid and wild thrashing of markets while a trader knows not, is what instills fear, envy, and most of all, doubt.

The negative emotions of uncertainty - spawn from the 95% of not knowing - bleed into the other 5% of what a trader does know, and clouds their judgment and shakes their confidence, accordingly.

Emotional self-awareness and traders "psychology" represent occupational bio-feedback and guided meditation tools, respectively.

The objective of both is to keep emotional uncertainty from co-mingling with the golden 5%, so to enhance the awareness from bio-signals produced from good and bad trades.

Emotional feedback can work. But thats trading a reverberation, of a reverberation, from a good signal. Sort like discerning what your neighbor shouts into a tin can, attached to a 60 ft piece of string, that ends in your marble-tiled washroom when you're sitting half-way down the hall!

Better still to plumb the source, rather than diagnose the side-effects. If bio-feedback works, it means a traders subconscious identified and understood the signal, but has yet to transfer the revelation to the waking mind.

Thats really key and salient to the whole discussion.

Now we're at an evolutionary cross-roads, where a trader's psychological make-up determines the fork-in-the-road.

For many, "intuition", "feeling", "psychology" is all they need to keep the golden 5% unmolested, and they run with it (not easy). Harder still, these traders are gifted with the natural discipline to sideline, watch and wait during the other ~90%. Most profitable traders fit this bill.

The other crowd, are either too undisciplined, impatient or unstable to make 10% work, 100% of the time. So they journal good signals, hammer out exactly why it works, extrapolate, and widdle down that 90% to 80%, then 70%, then 60%, etc etc.

And with each widdling, uncertainty becomes less prevalent, certainty dominates and negative emotions fade.

Thats why psychology is a double-edged sword. Its a good tool for beginners. But lies as the final holy grail, when thats in the charts.

 

[cabletrader]

Quote from Eric215:

I am very profitable and consistently so for the past three years now. I do not have a job and I have not had one for over two years now. I support myself completely ....etc etc etc

I didn't realize I or anyone else had actually asked you about how profitable you are but all evidence to the contrary from what I've read so far, you actually sound like you're trying to convince yourself, in all probability if you were in fact any of those things you would not feel the need to keep repeating them to try to convince others, you would be confident that people would see the wisdom in your posts by themselves.

Like I said to you before, anyone can say they're anything on the internet, in other words you can present yourself as whatever your fantasies desire. Whether it's convincing or not is a different matter!

Truly successful people don't feel the need to tell everyone how successful they are all the time, in fact if anything they tend to be rather modest about their success.

Whatever floats your boat big guy, as long as you're happy!

Anyway all that is totally irrelevant and inconsequential, if you want to debate an issue then fine, I'll debate it no problem.

Have a great day, I'm going to do some trading now

 

[Eric215]

Quote from achilles28:

I'm with Cable on this one.

The greater % of market movement understood, the less utility are 'psychology'/self awareness/centering techniques.

The inverse is also true.

Consider that most profitable traders only churn maybe 5-10% a month. They trade set-ups. Wait for their ducks to line up, then execute. They have a line on maybe 5% of hands dealt, and fold on the rest.

That other 95% is what f*cks traders up, psychologically.

That lurid and wild thrashing of markets while a trader knows not, is what instills fear, envy, and most of all, doubt.

The negative emotions of uncertainty - spawn from the 95% of not knowing - bleed into the other 5% of what a trader does know, and clouds their judgment and shakes their confidence, accordingly.

Emotional self-awareness and traders "psychology" represent occupational bio-feedback and guided meditation tools, respectively.

The objective of both is to keep emotional uncertainty from co-mingling with the golden 5%, so to enhance the awareness from bio-signals produced from good and bad trades.

Emotional feedback can work. But thats trading a reverberation, of a reverberation, from a good signal. Sort like discerning what your neighbor shouts into a tin can, attached to a 60 ft piece of string, that ends in your marble-tiled washroom when you're sitting half-way down the hall!

Better still to plumb the source, rather than diagnose the side-effects. If bio-feedback works, it means a traders subconscious identified and understood the signal, but has yet to transfer the revelation to the waking mind.

Thats really key and salient to the whole discussion.

Now we're at an evolutionary cross-roads, where a trader's psychological make-up determines the fork-in-the-road.

For many, "intuition", "feeling", "psychology" is all they need to keep the golden 5% unmolested, and they run with it (not easy). Harder still, these traders are gifted with the natural discipline to sideline, watch and wait during the other ~90%. Most profitable traders fit this bill.

The other crowd, are either too undisciplined, impatient or unstable to make 10% work, 100% of the time. So they journal good signals, hammer out exactly why it works, extrapolate, and widdle down that 90% to 80%, then 70%, then 60%, etc etc.

And with each widdling, uncertainty becomes less prevalent, certainty dominates and negative emotions fade.

Thats why psychology is a double-edged sword. Its a good tool for beginners. But lies as the final holy grail, when thats in the charts.

Your points are well taken. However I would say that I don't believe that there are just 10% opportunities. It is my belief, and experience everyday, that there are many opportunities, often times so many that I don't have enough eye balls and capital to exploit them. Maybe it is the emotional awareness and intuition that allows me to see and take advantage of these, but either way it is what I see everyday. It is interesting though that you would agree with a struggling and unprofitable trader as apposed to a very profitable one. I don't mean this disrespectfully but maybe this is why there are so few who are successful, another words, maybe the advice of the successful, for whatever reason, falls on deaf ears, but the ramblings of the unsuccessful are taken as truth. Interesting.

 

[cabletrader]

Quote from Eric215:

Ok well, I gave it my best try with you. The reason I stated the above facts is so that people would know where I am coming from and if they want to talk to a successful FX trader they can. Also, because it gets frustrating to argue with people about stuff that I have already gone through and kind of "been there done that", but they (you) seem to think they know better even though you aren't there yet. I am never insulting on these forums and I conduct myself maturely and, contrary to what you believe, I always tell the truth based on my experience. I will say though that it is definitely people like yourself, who is not a successful trader, that constantly argues with someone who is, that would keep successful traders out of here. I post something that is based on truth and actual experience and then I have to constantly defend it from unsuccessful loud mouths who criticize and insult without actually having any authority on the subject. It's actually quite baffling and hilarious when you think about it. When I was new I never argued like I knew how to be successful, but I listened and asked questions. Maybe that's why you are where you're at and I'm where I'm at. You are like the gurus who write books because they "think" they know how it's done but can't seem to actually do it. Good luck with that.

It's unconvincing to bill yourself as a guru by making all sorts of unsubstantiated claims, or to try to discredit people who don't agree with your opinions with equally unsubstantiated claims, just let your argument on a subject speak for itself. Your experience will shine through if it exists, simply claiming experience or others inexperience won't do it!

Politicians often use similar tactics, when they can't shoot the message they try to shoot the messenger, it's well-worn and ineffective and smacks of desperation in the face of adversity!

 

[achilles28]

Quote from Eric215:

Your points are well taken. However I would say that I don't believe that there are just 10% opportunities. It is my belief, and experience everyday, that there are many opportunities, often times so many that I don't have enough eye balls and capital to exploit them. Maybe it is the emotional awareness and intuition that allows me to see and take advantage of these, but either way it is what I see everyday. It is interesting though that you would agree with a struggling and unprofitable trader as apposed to a very profitable one. I don't mean this disrespectfully but maybe this is why there are so few who are successful, another words, maybe the advice of the successful, for whatever reason, falls on deaf ears, but the ramblings of the unsuccessful are taken as truth. Interesting.

If you can do 20%+ a day - on intuition alone - hats off to you. Thats not to say 20% is exceptional. Rather, its the fly-by-the-seat method. I see hard and fast rules that make it just as easy. So who has the disadvantage???

Btw, Cable has posted lots of blotters. 100 pips+ a days on tight stops. Try a search.

 

[cabletrader]

Quote from achilles28:



Thats why psychology is a double-edged sword. Its a good tool for beginners. But lies as the final holy grail, when thats in the charts.

Excellent post achilles28, it seemed a shame to snip it because every word was relevant!

This has actually turned into an interesting thread, I love debates like this because it either strengthens one's existing beliefs or throws up alternatives.

 

[Eric215]

Quote from cabletrader:

There's no need to bill yourself as a guru by making all sorts of unsubstantiated claims, or try to discredit people who don't agree with your opinions with equally unsubstantiated claims, just let your argument on a subject speak for itself.

Politicians often use similar tactics, when they can't shoot the message they try to shoot the messenger.

Ok fine, point taken. But now you've got me going here. Maybe that's why the successful are successful and the unsuccessful are unsuccessful. Maybe it comes down to humility and the ability to have an open mind and learn. This would enable a person to listen to the somewhat unorthodox, yet true, teachings of the truly successful. Maybe the unsuccessful are just more comfortable listening to the same old trading axioms that don't work and that fuel each new crop of new money, just because they are comfortable. Or maybe the successful traders advice has just subtle differences that are only absorbed by the truly eager. I have unsuccessful traders telling me that my advice is wrong yet I am actually doing what they are claiming to know how to do, but can't do. I don't mean this arrogantly, but it feels like I'm on the outside looking in.

 

[achilles28]

Quote from cabletrader:

Excellent post achilles28, it seemed a shame to snip it because every word was relevant!

This has actually turned into an interesting thread, I love debates like this because it either strengthens one's existing beliefs or throws up alternatives.

Ditto, brother. Perhaps, I'm wrong. Perhaps there's tons of highly-profitable "emotional/intuitive" traders, out there. I wouldn't have thought so. And given the seemingly fluctuating nature of the market, I'd imagine gut-feeling-it would be hard. Although, I know what I'm doing. So its quite possible they do as well, but haven't realized it!

The difference, I suppose, would be a stronger inner-connection/instinctual trust. Whereas with me, I question everyone and everything, to a fault. So i tear things down to their most basic, before i permit "faith". But then its not faith....its rules!