Steps for a career

Firstly, it's Columbia University, not Columbia College.

Secondly, Columbia doesn't offer a Finance degree at the undergrad level.

Just another amateur troll.

Regardless, Naifwonder offered some stellar advice.
 
Quote from emg:

Wrong degree! U should be graduating with bachelor degree in math and computer science. More than 90% of trading involves math and computer science. you need to be able to create your own mathematical formula indicator and not by using those obsolete indicators (SMA, piv

Graduating a degree in finance will land u a sales job.

Remember this and remember well!

More than 90% of small traders lose in a "Spectacular Fashion" They just lose!

As a Mathematics major, I disbelieve that you need a Math and CompSci double major to succeed as a trader. Mathematics helps one exercise objectivity and think abstractly, both of which can be synapsed to a wide array of fields. However, even if you are formulating your custom indicators, you don't need a mathematics degree to engage in higher level arithmetic at best (I was surprised to discover that the stochastic indicator doesn't involve any Stochastic calculus) . I actually believe majoring in math just to build custom "OMG- the blue line crossed the red line" indicators is a ridiculous endeavor. However, a mathematics major is almost imperative for quantitative traders and can certainly give derivatives traders an undeniable edge.

Computer Science can be highly practical in terms of generating alpha, but only in exclusive niche strategies. I'm not even remotely interested in front running orders at the rate of pico seconds, hence I don't intend to take any upper year computer science courses.

Instead, I'm also majoring in Economics- a subject that I'm really passionate about and it's fairly pleasing to know that macro economics and econometrics are quite relevant to a global macro approach to trading.
 
Quote from iTrade310:

Hi everyone,
I’m currently attending Columbia College here in NY. In a year I will be graduating with a bachelor’s degree in finance. I’ve been using a market simulator for the past couple years, since my only training is class knowledge. I’m looking for advice for the next move in the pursuit for a career. I want to apply to a broker firm, but I feel as if I need specialized training before I apply. Anyone who has been in a similar position I would appreciate advice. If so, I also was wondering what options I have for further training. Is there a reputable school? Is it better to find a mentor? Any ideas will be greatly appreciated
Thanks! -Justin

A career in trading can be found in the book Market Wizzards, go and read it.

If you summarize what you read, it would look like this:
year one: clueless.
year two: some clues.
year three: pain.
year four: pain.
year five: pain.
year six: profit.
year seven and after: size up to the sky.
 
Quote from Notes123:

A career in trading can be found in the book Market Wizzards, go and read it.

If you summarize what you read, it would look like this:
year one: clueless.
year two: some clues.
year three: pain.
year four: pain.
year five: pain.
year six: profit.
year seven and after: size up to the sky.

Second this. That book is the very reason I decided to seriously consider a career as a trader.

Also check out Come into my trading room by Alexander Elder.
 
Quote from ArbitRAGE:

Second this. That book is the very reason I decided to seriously consider a career as a trader.

Also check out Come into my trading room by Alexander Elder.


Why do ppl think trading has to the with math and science? I failed algebra 2 in high school was not the smartest kid but now im 20 years old and im seeing some profits. But i think one thing that separates me is the time i dedicated to learning this technical analysis.
 
...there is a Columbia College, it's a school within CU. Hydroblunt hit the nail on the head, there are no 'business' classes really, they take econ courses and would call themselves econ majors. He'd also have a clue about the industry if he were taking similar classes as on campus recruiting would enlighten him.

Any finance classes would really be taken at CBS and he'd be sure to mention he was attending CBS as they tend to do that:p
 
Quote from naifwonder:

I am in my senior year majoring in Applied Math and Statistics. I have yet to graduate and I just landed a great job with just 6 days of job hunting (that includes a weekend). The job is not in finance, but the experience I had should help you get some insight into your question, and details on how I pulled this off.

In any job market, employers in fields that require technical knowledge (such as finance) are looking for the most knowledgeable people willing to work at a given salary range. In a good economy, people can be competitive largely on the basis of academic knowledge. However, another significant determinant of an employee's value is what I like to refer to as "actionable" knowledge. This is knowledge that a person is readily capable of translating into work, and therefore the bottom line of the employer.

For the sake of simply demonstrating the relationship between the two, I will use rather arbitrary numbers: A person has a 3.9 GPA with a minor internship for 2 months giving them an actionable value of 1.5 out of 3. Therefore 3.9 * 1.5 = 5.85 = the person's value to the employer according to the resume. Another employee has a 3.3 gpa but started their own business in a similar field in while in college giving them an actionable value of 2.5 out of 3. This gives them an employee value of 3.3*3.2 = 8.25. For the sake of making it so that a person with a degree always has some added value, keep the minimum actionable value at 0.8 or something, irrespective of experience.

There are other variables such as attitude, college attended, and so forth, but these are the two primary factors. These calculations aren't exactly mathematically sound as representative models (for instance, a good college could improve the actionable value. I also pulled these numbers out of thin air). I just gave these numbers as a rough demonstration of the point I am trying to convey: College proves you have knowledge, and you need to be able to have knowledge and proof that you can convert that knowledge into action to get ahead - especially in this economy. You can start at a very entry level job to gain that proof of knowledge, but there are other ways to accelerate this process.

I highly recommend you stack up on proof of your ability to translate academic knowledge into action. One way to do it is to assess what specific skill sets your target career is looking for and work on projects of your own. One good way to do this is to read a page after page of job posts across different job sites such as hotjobs and on corporate sites themselves and look through the requirements. Identify requirements that you can work on through your own efforts. For example, many finance jobs prefer people that are familiar with software such as Matlab. So, teach yourself matlab and work on some data modelling of your own. Or, try constructing your own method for assessing companies and create a simulated portfolio. Post this stuff on the web and develop a following if possible. It seems absurd, but even that can get you some level of legitimacy; Even the shephard, though followed by sheep, is a leader. You can create a portfolio section and add this stuff to your resume. Even though your academic background will be the large chunk of your resume, this will help you stand out a lot. If you can land internships, that's even better since its more likely to yield something productive. Keep in mind that with any projects you do on the side, if that project is applied as a commercial endeavor, it makes you stand out. The only time something might be better is if you developing a huge open source project (someone accomplishing this in a 2 year timeframe, if ever, is very unlikely).

No matter what, try to develop a referal network. One problem I had was that so much of my projects and work was done on my own (such as running my own business), that coming up with referals became difficult. If you have trouble developing professional referals, maintain good relationships with professors since they can serve as referals as well.

IMPORTANT NOTE: As you develop points of actionable knowledge, it might tempting to forget about your studies. Do not fall into this trap. Your education is the most important thing. It is tempting to start thinking "I can do this own my own, so forget college". If you are smart enough to head out on your own, that's great. However, having the backing of a college degree means you have the freedom to fail and still have some good fallback; This affords you a great level of confidence and freedom that will reflect in your decision making. If you really are smart enough to work on your own today, don't worry, you will be even smarter after you're done with school. At the very least, your opinion on matters relevant to your field of study will usually be given more credit even if you could have learned on your own.

As for how I pulled off my "great job in 6 days in a crap economy": I am in school to head into the finance field, but I spent the past 2 years working on a web startup of my own. For a myriad of reasons, I did not end up launching it, but the work I did on the code for that startup demonstrated just how much I can do. Even though I did not go into school for computer science or IT, I landed a great job in that field that most people with 5 years of experience would have trouble landing - even in a good economy. It's a different field, but it is still something I am passionate about. Had I not had such an impressive portfolio of personal work, I would have been another name in the pile of people with just their GPA's listed next to their name. Also, I had done so many side projects of my own and studied so much that I was able to confidently tell the interviewer: "If you throw a problem at me, I can either figure out a solution right now, or figure out how to figure out the solution". I backed this statement through a demonstration (they gave me a tough problem they had, I gave them an implementable solution), so it wasn't just some arrogant rambling. I was not nervous; I was having a candid conversation with the interviewers. I had the confidence to be blunt, honest, and inquisitive while maintaining a strong sense of professionalism, and not coming off as arrogant but not timid either; This is the kind of thing those "learn how to act in an interview" videos on youtube try teaching you. As a result of my studying and experience, I wasn't acting - that's just who I was.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Despite me getting hired based mostly on actionable knowledge, this is a very rare case. In reality, it almost always takes a good blend of actionable and academic knowledge to get hired (and many times referrals).

Long story short, keep your GPA up and develop actionable knowledge. Do this buy interning and working on side projects. If you have to pick just one type of actionable knowledge, I'd recommend interning since it helps you develop a professional network, but please try to do both. And as I said before, keep your GPA up - it will help you greatly, especially in finance.

Also if you can, go to grad school. The salary goes up immensely, and the challenge of finding a job also decreases. If you go for a doctorate, even better. It seems like a lot of work, but it is well worth it. You will essentially get paid to think out loud.

Best of luck to you.

Best answer in this thread. This is an example what why trading firms rather hire grad with math degree instead of finance. In today trading world, we are going into pure logic vs 20 years ago.

Think about this. during the 1950-1980s, we didnt have algor, bots, black box, high speed internet. More than 90% of trades were done by phone.

In today world, more than 90% of trades are done by computer. Those that are pursing finance degree will land them a sales job and will expect to cold call like those movies (boiler room, wall steet, glengaryglenrose, etc). Those that purse math and computer sciense degree will land them a trading assistant job in the beginning.

naifwonder has the best answer. Good Job!

PS.

I will be using your quote under your name to teach more than 90% of losers what is trading all about.
 
Quote from emg:

Best answer in this thread. This is an example what why trading firms rather hire grad with math degree instead of finance. In today trading world, we are going into pure logic vs 20 years ago.

Think about this. during the 1950-1980s, we didnt have algor, bots, black box, high speed internet. More than 90% of trades were done by phone.

In today world, more than 90% of trades are done by computer. Those that are pursing finance degree will land them a sales job and will expect to cold call like those movies (boiler room, wall steet, glengaryglenrose, etc). Those that purse math and computer sciense degree will land them a trading assistant job in the beginning.

naifwonder has the best answer. Good Job!

PS.

I will be using your quote under your name to teach more than 90% of losers what is trading all about.

Warren Buffet disagrees with your notion. Being a successful trader has nothing with one's mathematics aptitude.
 
Back
Top