Step by Step How HFT's will SCREW YOU on the payroll number

Quote from talontrading:

1. Ok... if you have bitched about HFTs or algos or Goldman Sachs stealing your money in the last 6 months, raise your hand.

2. Now, pay attention because this is the important part. If you make consistent money trading... let's say pretty much every week or every month... keep your hand up. (If your hand was not already up from #1 do not put it up.)

How many hands are still raised? Very close to zero.

This is the dark side of these forums... just provides a platform for the semi-informed, not-yet-profitable traders to bitch. Winners do not do that, and winners do not focus on how THEY are screwing all the rest of us.

Winners figure out how to win. When the game changes, they adapt. Winners also figure out what has not, does not, and will not change and base their trading on those things.

That's more important than whatever you are speculating and guessing about with the "HFT's nerd's nerdbox". (Wow)

Just my three cents worth.
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just because someone is bitching about a penny or two given and/or an inconvenience to do with the reality of a seemingly unfair (wah, wah, and waaaahhhhhh!!) advantage given to broker-dealers for the supposed price improvement of their customers doesn't necessarily mean that they are not making money. if you say "focus," are you trying to convey "fixate/obsess" or maybe you are aware that one may be just making a point about what is actually happening and where your penny over 10 million shares went when you used to be able to actually get some money out of it by adding liquidity.
keyword:USED TO.
everything changes so adapt. unequivocally true, good point and good luck continuing to make money, as i believe you probably do:)
 
Quote from colonelangus:

it is my understanding that it is happening at all of them in accordance with the SEC's NBBO rule (best bid and offer).

"if, after being exposed to a presence, you feel as if you lost a quart of plasma, avoid that presence."
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This is confusing to me because I'm not sure how the NBBO rule could be used to front-run, or what its connection with flash orders is. Can you connect the dots for me?

"Hustlers of the world, there is one Mark you cannot beat: The Mark Inside." Apropos, I think.
 
Quote from johnnyqpublic:

This is confusing to me because I'm not sure how the NBBO rule could be used to front-run, or what its connection with flash orders is. Can you connect the dots for me?

"Hustlers of the world, there is one Mark you cannot beat: The Mark Inside." Apropos, I think.
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In addition OP is talking about trading futures so flash orders don't even apply.

Quote from Joovenile Jatt:

Promagma, I don't trade on the internet. I trade on a 100MB dedicated line. I presume this would be enough to cover all market events, and it was, until the order stuffing HFT's started flooding the marketplace. I know a few people at a few different firms. All of them are unhappy with the current speed of their systems. We can't all be wrong.
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BS - You are lying. There is no way you can max out a 100mbit line. Maybe if you have 15-20 traders on a 100mbit line but never one person. Why don't you state your clearing firm, do a trace route and tell us how many servers and hops you have to your execution engine, and post up your latency.

Quote from stock777:

just ask that turkey winstontj. according to her
nothing is amiss.
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If you understood the markets you would be trading more and posting less. Quote stuffing is BS and anyone blaming it has been getting screwed over by their retail broker who internalizes order flow for quite some time.

Quote from colonelangus:

it is my understanding that it is happening at all of them in accordance with the SEC's NBBO rule (best bid and offer).

"if, after being exposed to a presence, you feel as if you lost a quart of plasma, avoid that presence."
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OP said futures, not stocks
 
Quote from johnnyqpublic:

This is confusing to me because I'm not sure how the NBBO rule could be used to front-run, or what its connection with flash orders is. Can you connect the dots for me?

"Hustlers of the world, there is one Mark you cannot beat: The Mark Inside." Apropos, I think.
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apropos, indeed:)

regarding NBBO rule, the idea is to get the customer's order out simultaneously (NOT may 6th) to all exchanges to get the best possible price in that instant for that particular instrument.
down side is that the ATS exchanges will, in an effort to drum up some biz, give these HFT black box folks a "flash" of what orders are out there a few millionths of a second before it goes to the market(for a small fee) which sometimes gives rise to us having an irritated rectum. seems illegal in the same vein as insider trading but apparently, a regulatory loophole lets the vampiric hfts bleed us so. as most HFT servers are co-located at the exchanges, they beat out the institutions, and us, 24 hours a day. this is my understanding of it.
 
Quote from WinstonTJ:

OP said futures, not stocks [/B]
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technically, the OP in his OP didn't mention futures but how HFTs put it to us so IMO, still on topic.
besides, it is a forum and as it is public, topics can meander this way or that and if some folks happen to digress into a seemingly off topic chat within that thread, it doesn't necessarily mean that armageddon is upon us, although it doesn't mean that it isn't:D
 
Quote from WinstonTJ:

In addition OP is talking about trading futures so flash orders don't even apply.



BS - You are lying. There is no way you can max out a 100mbit line. Maybe if you have 15-20 traders on a 100mbit line but never one person. Why don't you state your clearing firm, do a trace route and tell us how many servers and hops you have to your execution engine, and post up your latency.




I'm lying am I? So I take you haven't heard of propriety trading firms, where you have numerous traders sharing a big line. I'm in an office with up to 50 traders at a time. Am I still lying?

Yes, I was talking about futures where the exact same cheating HFT techniques are used as in share trading, there is no difference and if you traded the number on Friday you would've seen exactly what I predicted would happen happen. Extreme bil side order stuffing engineered to slow systems down and front run them... EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. I talked to 3 people at 3 other trading firms and they experienced the exact same thing and resulting slowdowns.

With due respect to the people who are trading on the internet here, I think we have a different version of what is slow. I trade at circa 85 milliseconds. You can't get that on any internet line in the world and I can assure you that 85 milliseconds is MILES TOO SLOW. These HFT's nerds are getting it down to 10 milliseconds.

Which moves on to my other point. I don't mind that the HFT nerds have a 75 millisecond advantage over me. I don't mind if they can see able to scalp in front of size quicker than me, that's part of the game. I do mind however when they are using order stuffing to make that advantage 150 milliseconds and not 75 milliseconds. I do mind when they are getting illegal information from brokers or whoever so that when I am trying to buy my full size of 100 contracts at 1092 in the ES, they see that and buy the 1092 before me .. ie THEY JUMP IN FRONT. That is downright illegal insider trading

The HFT nerds here will try to twist it, attempt to make me look stupid, or just throw insults but they can NEVER give us an answer for why there is HUGE order stuffing by the HFT nerds when the market moves quickly ie during figures. They know I have outed them and exposed their illegal game in plain english.

They will claim that I am a sore loser who is bitching about HFT. That's the typical playground repost. I state, for the 4th time, HFT HAVE HELPED ME MAKE MONEY LATELY CUZ I AM A PREDOMINENTLY LONG SIDE TRADER AND THEY SPENT THE WHOLE TRADING SESSION MANIPULATING THE MARKET UP.

But does that make it right when experienced good screen traders are blowing out to their corruption? I say no.

Oh and as for the guy that called me an idiot because he says that no real traders trade the 5 minutes after an economic release. That is quite possibly the most retarted thing I have ever read on this website. So you don't trade after figure? What, don't you have the balls? The figures are the bread and butter of local traders, are you nuts?? Clearly, I was talking about order stuffing AFTER the figure, so good luck with your trading career if you haven't got the balls to trade until 10 minutes after every economic release.

Okay, where's my spanner, I've got as nerdbox to make

:) :)
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Anyone can bypass all Broker API's and get their software certified to trade directly with CME.

85MS - 150ms? Are you kidding..

Order releases are routinely < 1ms.
Colocated latency is < 1ms.

They are not cutting in line or getting inside info. They can see your order in the DOM, execute and clear before you get your confirmation.

What antiquated software are you running?
Even Excel can be programmed to process feeds and trigger orders in 10ms.




Quote from Joovenile Jatt:

Quote from WinstonTJ:

In addition OP is talking about trading futures so flash orders don't even apply.



BS - You are lying. There is no way you can max out a 100mbit line. Maybe if you have 15-20 traders on a 100mbit line but never one person. Why don't you state your clearing firm, do a trace route and tell us how many servers and hops you have to your execution engine, and post up your latency.




I'm lying am I? So I take you haven't heard of propriety trading firms, where you have numerous traders sharing a big line. I'm in an office with up to 50 traders at a time. Am I still lying?

Yes, I was talking about futures where the exact same cheating HFT techniques are used as in share trading, there is no difference and if you traded the number on Friday you would've seen exactly what I predicted would happen happen. Extreme bil side order stuffing engineered to slow systems down and front run them... EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED. I talked to 3 people at 3 other trading firms and they experienced the exact same thing and resulting slowdowns.

With due respect to the people who are trading on the internet here, I think we have a different version of what is slow. I trade at circa 85 milliseconds. You can't get that on any internet line in the world and I can assure you that 85 milliseconds is MILES TOO SLOW. These HFT's nerds are getting it down to 10 milliseconds.

Which moves on to my other point. I don't mind that the HFT nerds have a 75 millisecond advantage over me. I don't mind if they can see able to scalp in front of size quicker than me, that's part of the game. I do mind however when they are using order stuffing to make that advantage 150 milliseconds and not 75 milliseconds. I do mind when they are getting illegal information from brokers or whoever so that when I am trying to buy my full size of 100 contracts at 1092 in the ES, they see that and buy the 1092 before me .. ie THEY JUMP IN FRONT. That is downright illegal insider trading

The HFT nerds here will try to twist it, attempt to make me look stupid, or just throw insults but they can NEVER give us an answer for why there is HUGE order stuffing by the HFT nerds when the market moves quickly ie during figures. They know I have outed them and exposed their illegal game in plain english.

They will claim that I am a sore loser who is bitching about HFT. That's the typical playground repost. I state, for the 4th time, HFT HAVE HELPED ME MAKE MONEY LATELY CUZ I AM A PREDOMINENTLY LONG SIDE TRADER AND THEY SPENT THE WHOLE TRADING SESSION MANIPULATING THE MARKET UP.

But does that make it right when experienced good screen traders are blowing out to their corruption? I say no.

Oh and as for the guy that called me an idiot because he says that no real traders trade the 5 minutes after an economic release. That is quite possibly the most retarted thing I have ever read on this website. So you don't trade after figure? What, don't you have the balls? The figures are the bread and butter of local traders, are you nuts?? Clearly, I was talking about order stuffing AFTER the figure, so good luck with your trading career if you haven't got the balls to trade until 10 minutes after every economic release.

Okay, where's my spanner, I've got as nerdbox to make

:) :)
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Quote from Joovenile Jatt:

With due respect to the people who are trading on the internet here, I think we have a different version of what is slow. I trade at circa 85 milliseconds. You can't get that on any internet line in the world and I can assure you that 85 milliseconds is MILES TOO SLOW. These HFT's nerds are getting it down to 10 milliseconds.
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You are either misinformed or a troll.
 
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