Stats for successful trader in prop ?

dvshucks · Dec 13, 2005

At my first firm, I started in a group of about a dozen guys. A year later, I was the only one still trading and it wasn't at that firm. At the one I'm at now, out of the group of like 25, in about 2 years, 2 got fired, 1 left for a better deal at another firm and 2 left because they got really good job offers from their old jobs, so the other 20 are still with them trading at various levels. Each office is different.

Frenchy · Dec 13, 2005

what is the most important factor of success in your opinion ??

ynox1 · Dec 14, 2005

Persistence

lescor · Dec 14, 2005

Have enough money saved or a second income to survive the learning curve. Trade small and conserve your capital above all else. If you manage to survive long enough, you will eventually make it.

ang_99 · Dec 15, 2005

Quote from lescor:

Have enough money saved or a second income to survive the learning curve. Trade small and conserve your capital above all else. If you manage to survive long enough, you will eventually make it.

Even if you have enough to live on for a couple years or whatever and trade small, don't you think most people will not be able to find an edge. Thus never really get anywhere?

Shazbatz · Dec 16, 2005

Quote from ang_99:

Even if you have enough to live on for a couple years or whatever and trade small, don't you think most people will not be able to find an edge. Thus never really get anywhere?

I strongly agree here. Defining your edge could take a while. Most neophytes jump from one strategy to the next until they realize their is no perfect strategy. This is where backtesting plays a huge role and helps you build the confidence to follow the rules.

nononsense · Dec 16, 2005

Quote from jackbyrd:

"fuzzy math" is CoolWhip's specialty.

Don Bright · Dec 17, 2005

Quote from Frenchy:

it will be interesting if someone (like Don ) can tell us how many trader join by year and how many stay, how much they made....
Thanks

(As reported to regulators)

Approximately 50% make it to year # 2 (yet 90% of all business ventures fail in the first year)...are we 5 times better than other business ventures? Who knows, this is a pretty individual business.

Traders after 1 year learning curve (see above, basically those who stick it out, work hard, study hard, good discipline, etc.) "average" about $120-$150K (with some making millions, some losing money.."average" is not a great quantifiable number).

Another good question comes to mind: What business venture can you have (extremely) limited downside risk, with an unlimited upside potential...and where else can you "borrow" a $million or two every day for zero costs?

Some seek why they "can't" - some seek to find out how they "can"....tools are provided, traders provide the discipline and desire to succeed.

All the best,

Don

Hydroblunt · Dec 17, 2005

Quote from Steve Tvardek:

Certainly not half but there are a bunch (at least 9-10 guys out of 40 in my group) making between 100k-300k a year. So averaged out, thats 10K+ a month. But thats only in my specific group. There are a bunch of others group within my firm and I dont know how well they do. I do know of at least 2 guys in my office that are up somewhere in the neighborhood of 1 mil for the year but thats extremely rare. I am sure the majority of the guys arent making any real $$.

There are 100s of prop groups out there and most of them are "chop shops" & employ the burn & churn scheme. Steve's is one of the top 5 groups out there. A few of their top hitters are well known by name among who matters in the NYC prop world. So take his stats and then consider everything else.

25% make 5-10k? Maybe 2-4 years ago. More like 25% break profitable which means nothing with USA's cost of living and 10% make 5k+ a month.

Hydroblunt · Dec 17, 2005

Quote from Don Bright:

Approximately 50% make it to year # 2 (yet 90% of all business ventures fail in the first year)...are we 5 times better than other business ventures? Who knows, this is a pretty individual business.

Ok but hopefuls will push themselves to Year #2 and possibly Year #3 even if they are not making money and I have seen this and still observe this. It means nothing. A business venture has its own innate costs on top of the individual's cost of living, so it is much harder to maintain.

I know of a guy who dropped over 50k this year daytrading a certain bastardly but popular Oil specialist yet he will continue just because he is like rich & can easily afford it. Does that mean he made it to year #2?