State government employees are underpaid

For all you "revenue shortfall" types who think the best course of action is to raise taxes on individuals and corporations, go Eff yourselves. Really.

You already take half of what I make. And when I die, you want to take the rest of it.

Such hypocrites. You had two years of complete domination to do whatever you wanted to - including fixing the tax code. You let your liberal social democracy buddies over at Google create some shell in Ireland or whatever and pay like 2% tax or something. John Kerry will go out of his way to park his yacht in another state to avoid taxes. I don't see Oprah or Soros or Buffett or Pelosi coming out and saying: "I am going to pay taxes at the ordinary rate this year without deductions, because it's the fair thing to do in my income bracket".

So full of shit.
 
Well, Illinois is just a utopian nirvana for progressive Democrats.
The entire government apparatus in Illinois has been completely dominated by the Democratic party.

Illinois chose to address the 'revenue shortfall' by sharply raising taxes on individuals and corporations. Why? Because Illinois wants to protect Middle Class Americans and provide services and opportunities for those that need it the most.

As you can see, when the Democratic party has complete autonomy and authority at every level of government for decades on end, the public schools are superior and everyone is very happy. No crime, no drugs, no murder rate, all kinds of economic opportunity. Just a beautiful place. We got the Olympics here. Everyone is thrilled and happy. Businesses are waiting in line to relocated here - the Illinois Secretary of State actually ran out of number combinations for new LLC registrations. People are building retirement homes here. Everybody is looking for office space and residential space in Chicago. The procession of moving vans from the Sunbelt 'right-to-work' states winding into Illinois is amazing. Sears has sold out of snowblowers for the new Southern immigrants.
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:


How can a city or state pay over 30% of its total revenues to its retirees?

ans:Inflation. Increasing revenue
More...

You cannot be serious, no matter what the tooth-fairy version of Keynesian economics hallucinates.
 
I am serious only that inflation wipes out debt and obligation relative to fixed obligations.

If the government owes $100,000.00 to an employee, and they take in more $300,000 in dollars as a result of inflation, they are more easily able to pay the obligation.

Same reason why people buying a house want to lock in a low rate fixed for 30 years, because their mortgage stays a fixed obligation...not adjusted for inflation, and if there is inflation their relative cost of home ownership decreases.

In America, the greater fear is deflation than depression. Or 30's depression was deflation. In Germany, it was inflation. So they fear inflation more.

Both produce destruction of value in their own way, but those whose obligation are fixed in dollars benefit by inflation of dollars where they have those obligations.

We own China what? 4 trillion, I don't know.

We have inflation, and we end up paying them 25 cents on the dollar we owe them relative to the value of the dollars today.

Their risk was that we wouldn't have inflation.

So there is pension liability that is not inflation adjusted, but fixed. We take in more dollars (worth less with inflation) but pay them in dollars.

The key of course would be to see if the liabilities are fixed, or adjusting according to real inflation.

This is one of the reasons, in my opinion that we are actually experiencing wealth destruction, because real inflation has not been measured properly. Wage inflation has not happened much, when the real cost of living increases, wages have not kept pace with real inflation...thanks in large part to the Reagan administration changing the way we measure inflation. What a scamola...not unexpected though from the folks that brought us Voodoo economics, greed is good, and massive budget deficits and borrowing into the future.

One wonders if it would have actually been cheaper not to try and BK the soviets by laying the foundation for BKing our own country through the introduction of massive bond offerings.





Quote from LORD KAL-EL:

You cannot be serious, no matter what the tooth-fairy version of Keynesian economics hallucinates.
More...
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:

I am serious only that inflation wipes out debt and obligation relative to fixed obligations.

If the government owes $100,000.00 to an employee, and they take in more $300,000 in dollars as a result of inflation, they are more easily able to pay the obligation.
More...
That's the stupidest thing* I've ever seen you post and that "IS" SAYING SOMETHING.

* well that is if you hold yourself out to be supporting the welfare of the working man and middle-class.
 
I'm not proposing anything, but the fact that massive inflation, if the pension fund liability is not adjusted for inflation, makes it easy to pay off for the government.

You increase more revenue in inflated dollars, and pay off fixed debt in dollars with ease.

Look, there is going to be pain from the contraction of our economy, and unlike our current system of protecting the wealthy via non taxation, inflation across the board would hurt everyone.

So if someone has to take it in the shorts, I want that pain to be "collective" and not just influencing the poor and the vanishing middle class.

Bond holders are scrambling for ways right now to protect themselves against possible inflation...but inflation is always relative.

Is gold really worth $1,400 an ounce? Man can live without gold...but not without the basic necessities of life.

I still don't understand why the right wing blames just the unions for the problem...who was managing the pension funds?

This attack on the union only smells wrong to me...



Quote from LORD KAL-EL:

That's the stupidest thing* I've ever seen you post and that "IS" SAYING SOMETHING.

* well that is if you hold yourself out to be supporting the welfare of the working man and middle-class.
More...
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:

I'm not proposing anything,...
So if someone has to take it in the shorts, I want that pain to be "collective" and not just influencing the poor and the vanishing middle class.
More...

Don't look now but you've just adopted stu's belief is"non-belief" tactic*.

*Assert something then deny you are advocating it.
 
Flawed.

I did not assert it was the right thing to do, I only asserted that is was one possible solution.

The "right" thing to do is what most households have to do these days...look to cut expenses where they can and increase revenues where they can.

However, inflation is a real possibility notwithstanding, and if we had 70's style inflation, that would make it easier for the pension fund to pay off the liabilities. I don't favor that, but it is one possibility. Some extremist kept asking how the obligation could be paid off, I gave an answer.

The collapse of the stock market in 2007 left corporate pension plans at the largest companies underfunded by $409 billion, reversing a $60-billion pension surplus at the end of 2007.

What really troubles me is the lack of blame on pension fund managers and the risks they take, or the pension fund itself for not trying to protect the fund, but rather trying to make a profit for themselves and the fund company...at the risk of the fund or the owners of the fund.

Blaming only the union, and not blaming the pension fund managers is folly...

Quote from LORD KAL-EL:

Don't look now but you've just adopted stu's belief is"non-belief" tactic*.

*Assert something then deny you are advocating it.
More...
 
Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Flawed.

I did not assert it was the right thing to do, I only asserted that is was one possible solution.

What really troubles me is the lack of blame on pension fund managers, or the pension fund itself.

Blaming only the union, and not blaming the pension fund managers is folly...
More...

Why blame pension fundmanagers?

I completely fail to see your reasoning or logic.
 
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