State government employees are underpaid

I never said it was the fault of democrats. I said it was the fault of politicians. Republicans are as bad as Democrats and I never vote for either party.

And for your information, San Diego and Orange County are not "right-wing." I live in Newport Beach in Orange county and our mayor, Keith Curry, is a liberal democrat as are the mayors of neighboring Laguna Beach and Irvine. (Obama carried 48% of the Orange County vote in 2008, and McCain took 47%.) The Mayor of San Diego, Jerry Sanders, is also a democrat whose current crusade is to legalize same-sex marriage. Does that sound right-wing to you?

California's revenue projections weren't wrong. They were a lie. The projections were for the California economy to continue to grow at an unrealistic pace forever into the future. Everybody knew it was a lie. The LA Times and Orange County Register both ran articles about the phony budget projections. The pension time bomb wasn't a secret, but nobody wanted to deal with it.

Now the problems have come home to roost and many California cities will be declaring bankruptcy over the next couple of years because it's the only way out of the financial mess. Can any city pay 30% of its total budget in employee retirement costs? It's not possible.


Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Oh my.

Are there similar issues in red states?

Yes.

Those states had GOP controlled cities and state governments.

So, it is happening everywhere.

In cities like San Diego, which is right wing, there are problems. In Orange country, the same.

Who is to blame for making bad deals? The union made them do it.

Sure...in a fantasy world.

Revenue projections were wrong, that's the bottom line.

If LA cut all money to illegals, that would be a nice start, and stop blaming the unions for the bad deal that was made.

Look, this only became a major issue recently, the GOP did not run on "Bust the union" platform in the recent elections.

You forgot another solution...massive inflation. That is always a way to cure the ills of the debtor...but that would hurt the wealthy and the bond holders...so that's not going to happen.
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Orange county is known right wing. So is San Diego. A few cities do not make a county.

Jerry Sanders was not the mayor when the deals were made you are referring to.

Compare percentages of voters for Obama vs. McCain to the state, to known liberal counties, to San Diego, etc.

Orange county is known right wing.

By participating in the California Republican Party’s voter registration program, 16,176 new Republicans were registered to vote during the 12 months leading up to the November election, a 1.5% increase over the previous year. As a result, the Republican Party of Orange County maintained its status as one of the largest Republican strongholds in the country, outnumbering the Democrats by over 182,000.

http://www.cagop.org/index.cfm/press_release_1342.htm

Is Orange county less right wing than in the past...yes, but still right wing.

Sander's daughter is gay, and unlike the GOP homophobes, he knows firsthand that gay people aren't going to alter the straights by getting married.

"On September 19, 2007, Sanders abruptly reversed his public opposition to same-sex marriage before signing a City Council resolution aimed at overturning the state's ban on same-sex weddings. He gave a tearful speech in which he explained that he could not tell his daughter Lisa, who is gay, that her relationship with a partner is not as important as that of a straight couple and that he had "decided to lead with my heart...to take a stand on behalf of equality and social justice."

Dick Cheney is also pro gay marriage.

http://unreligiousright.blogspot.com/2009/06/dick-cheney-pro-gay-marriage.html

"The Mayor of San Diego, Jerry Sanders, is also a democrat. "

False.

Coincidentally, when Bloomberg left the Republican Party in 2007, San Diego became the largest U.S. city with a Republican mayor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sanders_(politician)

Please, get an education...

"California's revenue projections weren't wrong. They were a lie."

They weren't wrong?

Silly.

The revenue projections were based on growth rates in the 90's expansion of high tech in California, where it was thought the rate of growth would continue. Additionally, the state has been very hard hit by the decline in the housing and real estate industry, that was not expected and has hurt revenues.

I don't want to insult you, but doesn't being wrong on the facts make you doubt yourself?



Quote from tomdavis:

I never said it was the fault of democrats. I said it was the fault of politicians. Republicans are as bad as Democrats and I never vote for either party.

And for your information, San Diego and Orange County are not "right-wing." I live in Newport Beach in Orange county and our mayor, Keith Curry, is a liberal democrat as are the mayors of neighboring Laguna Beach and Irvine. (Obama carried 48% of the Orange County vote in 2008, and McCain took 47%.) The Mayor of San Diego, Jerry Sanders, is also a democrat whose current crusade is to legalize same-sex marriage. Does that sound right-wing to you?

California's revenue projections weren't wrong. They were a lie. The projections were for the California economy to continue to grow at an unrealistic pace forever into the future. Everybody knew it was a lie. The LA Times and Orange County Register both ran articles about the phony budget projections. The pension time bomb wasn't a secret, but nobody wanted to deal with it.

Now the problems have come home to roost and many California cities will be declaring bankruptcy over the next couple of years because it's the only way out of the financial mess. Can any city pay 30% of its total budget in employee retirement costs? It's not possible.
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"State Government Employees Are Underpaid"

They can always quit and join the private sector.
heh.gif
 
If Orange county is so right wing, why was it it such a close election between Obama and McCain in the 2008 elections? Why does the largest city in the county (Santa Ana) have a democrat mayor? Why do Newport Beach, Laguna Beach and Irvine all have democrat mayors. The only major cities in Orange county with republican mayors are Costa Mesa and Anaheim. You are wrong on the facts again.

Jerry Sanders can call himself a Republican if he wants, but he's not. He favors keeping illegals as a protected class and paying them massive amounts in benefits, he favors gay marriage, wants to raise taxes, etc. The guy is a far-left liberal. He can call himself a martian if he wants, but he's still a liberal. You are wrong on the facts. Another important fact is that Republicans in this state have been every bit as irresposible as Democrats and that why I won't vote for either party. They're all liars and crooks.

California's revenue projections were based on the tech boom years and housing growth which everyone KNEW could not continue into the future. The LA Times (left-leaning) and Orange County Register (right leaning) both ran editorials stating that California had a long history of boom and bust cycles and that the budget numbers were completely unrealistic. Again, you are wrong on the facts.

And you're the one who refuses to answer the key question: How can a city or state pay over 30% of its total revenues to its retirees? You claim the cities should just raise revenues. How? The sales tax is already at 9-10% (depending on which county you're in), among the highest in the country. Businesses are leaving California in record numbers. Over 200 companies either left the state or moved major portions of their operations out of the state during 2010. Unemployment as measured by "u6" is over 20%. The unfunded public employee pension liability is in the hundreds of billions of dollars. California's bond rating has sunk to the lowest in the country. There are only two choices: (a) bankruptcy; (b) massive layoffs of current employees.


Quote from OPTIONAL777:

Orange county is known right wing. So is San Diego. A few cities do not make a county.

Jerry Sanders was not the mayor when the deals were made you are referring to.

Compare percentages of voters for Obama vs. McCain to the state, to known liberal counties, to San Diego, etc.

Orange county is known right wing.

By participating in the California Republican Party’s voter registration program, 16,176 new Republicans were registered to vote during the 12 months leading up to the November election, a 1.5% increase over the previous year. As a result, the Republican Party of Orange County maintained its status as one of the largest Republican strongholds in the country, outnumbering the Democrats by over 182,000.

http://www.cagop.org/index.cfm/press_release_1342.htm

Is Orange county less right wing than in the past...yes, but still right wing.

Sander's daughter is gay, and unlike the GOP homophobes, he knows firsthand that gay people aren't going to alter the straights by getting married.

"On September 19, 2007, Sanders abruptly reversed his public opposition to same-sex marriage before signing a City Council resolution aimed at overturning the state's ban on same-sex weddings. He gave a tearful speech in which he explained that he could not tell his daughter Lisa, who is gay, that her relationship with a partner is not as important as that of a straight couple and that he had "decided to lead with my heart...to take a stand on behalf of equality and social justice."

Dick Cheney is also pro gay marriage.

http://unreligiousright.blogspot.com/2009/06/dick-cheney-pro-gay-marriage.html

"The Mayor of San Diego, Jerry Sanders, is also a democrat. "

False.

Coincidentally, when Bloomberg left the Republican Party in 2007, San Diego became the largest U.S. city with a Republican mayor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sanders_(politician)

Please, get an education...

"California's revenue projections weren't wrong. They were a lie."

They weren't wrong?

Silly.

The revenue projections were based on growth rates in the 90's expansion of high tech in California, where it was thought the rate of growth would continue. Additionally, the state has been very hard hit by the decline in the housing and real estate industry, that was not expected and has hurt revenues.

I don't want to insult you, but doesn't being wrong on the facts make you doubt yourself?
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I like to avoid all the bickering and misrepresented facts and get to something that closes the loop around all the garbage... I heard a leaked tape from a meeting of the California Comptroller and he said that there can never be even enough income for the public sector to pay just the retirement benefits alone!!

It comes down to a fight over a diminishing resource, taxpayer money.. old people and union bastards have been promised a lot more than they can ever collect on. I saw our current governor act in the inflation crisis of the Carter years. He threw old people under the bus and focused on Gay rights and things like that... I'll be expecting him to do the same again.. he's a real lying piece of shit. He's currently doling out drivel about cooperation between the major parties to solve the crisis..
 
There's an undeniable fact staring everyone in the face -- there isn't enough money to pay the bills in California.

Unfunded pension liabilities are now the biggest item on the table and they're swallowing California cities whole. The state's only been able to last this long because of their massive borrowing power. But California's bonds are now the lowest rated in the country and borrowing is going to get more and more expensive until all the lenders are gone. When the Los Angeles Times runs stories with titles like: "Day of Reckoning on Pensions," it's pretty clear that there's no longer any doubt about it.

Quote from Eight:

I like to avoid all the bickering and misrepresented facts and get to something that closes the loop around all the garbage... I heard a leaked tape from a meeting of the California Comptroller and he said that there can never be even enough income for the public sector to pay just the retirement benefits alone!!

It comes down to a fight over a diminishing resource, taxpayer money.. old people and union bastards have been promised a lot more than they can ever collect on. I saw our current governor act in the inflation crisis of the Carter years. He threw old people under the bus and focused on Gay rights and things like that... I'll be expecting him to do the same again.. he's a real lying piece of shit. He's currently doling out drivel about cooperation between the major parties to solve the crisis..
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Quote from tomdavis:

There's an undeniable fact staring everyone in the face -- there isn't enough money to pay the bills in California.
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Jerry Brown has already said he will challenge Proposition-13 (which limits property tax increases to 2% per year) and raise property taxes dramatically. He will not reduce spending or Union influence. He will embrace high-speed rail and other fantasies.

The Los Angeles Unified School District just spent $750M on a new highschool that includes million dollar artwork, statues and frescoes honoring leftist leaders. The district is broke and cannot pay all of its teachers and must borrow to close the budget.

Residential property taxes will more than double. That is my prediction. I also predict that california housing will continue to decline and so will total property tax receipts collected by the state as people request tax reassessment over and over and over.

California is becoming a european-style socialist state that will eventually have to be propped-up by federal tax money. That means that everyone in the country is going to pay for us to fail to solve our local problems. People in very cold places will subsidize our sunny lifestyles here in the Golden State.
 
Bush, then McCain.

No, I am not wrong on facts.

Your logic is skewed.

Take the congressional elections of 2006 & 2010. We saw republicans voted out in 2006, four years later they vote them back in.

Reagan, a republican conservative, won California in 1980 and 1984. Did that mean California was conservative collectively?

California voted in Ahnold, a republic...does that mean California was republican when they voted Ahnold in?

Look to voter registrations...Orange County is more republican than democrat.

So, the fact remains that Orange County is a majority of republicans. Are all republicans right wing? No, there are some moderate republicans...they are the ones who gave Obama the majority vote in Orange county.

Obviously, some moderate republicans didn't care for McCain, and took a flyer on Obama...or maybe some of the right wingers were so disgusted with the choices that they did not even vote.

Jerry Sanders can call himself a Republican if he wants, but he's not.

So you are the decider of who or whom is a republican.

Now you are really being illogical.

California had a long history of boom and bust cycles and that the budget numbers were completely unrealistic.

The stock market has a long history of boom and bust stocks, and general index prices.

That keeps people from making projections into the future and buying stocks?

How can a city or state pay over 30% of its total revenues to its retirees?

Inflation. Increasing revenue

The LA Times (left-leaning) and Orange County Register (right leaning) both ran editorials stating that California had a long history of boom and bust cycles and that the budget numbers were completely unrealistic.

How often do we see complete agreement on projections into the future?

Most every projection you will find, will show someone with a different spin.

Did the states or the cities make poor choices?

Sure, it happens...it will happen in the future.

While you want to blame the unions alone for the mistake...nobody put a gun to anyone's head. The states/cities need to man up and take responsibility. We should blame union negotiators because they did a good job for their side?

Jerry Brown has put forth a compromised plan to address the state budget deficit, that will take both sides to give in.

Quote from tomdavis:

If Orange county is so right wing, why was it it such a close election between Obama and McCain in the 2008 elections? Why does the largest city in the county (Santa Ana) have a democrat mayor? Why do Newport Beach, Laguna Beach and Irvine all have democrat mayors. The only major cities in Orange county with republican mayors are Costa Mesa and Anaheim. You are wrong on the facts again.

Jerry Sanders can call himself a Republican if he wants, but he's not. He favors keeping illegals as a protected class and paying them massive amounts in benefits, he favors gay marriage, wants to raise taxes, etc. The guy is a far-left liberal. He can call himself a martian if he wants, but he's still a liberal. You are wrong on the facts. Another important fact is that Republicans in this state have been every bit as irresposible as Democrats and that why I won't vote for either party. They're all liars and crooks.

California's revenue projections were based on the tech boom years and housing growth which everyone KNEW could not continue into the future. The LA Times (left-leaning) and Orange County Register (right leaning) both ran editorials stating that California had a long history of boom and bust cycles and that the budget numbers were completely unrealistic. Again, you are wrong on the facts.

And you're the one who refuses to answer the key question: How can a city or state pay over 30% of its total revenues to its retirees? You claim the cities should just raise revenues. How? The sales tax is already at 9-10% (depending on which county you're in), among the highest in the country. Businesses are leaving California in record numbers. Over 200 companies either left the state or moved major portions of their operations out of the state during 2010. Unemployment as measured by "u6" is over 20%. The unfunded public employee pension liability is in the hundreds of billions of dollars. California's bond rating has sunk to the lowest in the country. There are only two choices: (a) bankruptcy; (b) massive layoffs of current employees.
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I have made this point before, but these arguments about govenrment workers' compensation miss the point. It is very easy to tell if they are overpaid or not. How hard is it to hire people to take these jobs? In most states, government jobs are prized and there is intense competition to get them. In fact, in corrupt places like chicago, there is a long tradition of stacking them with political hacks.

Anyone with a basic understanding of economics, which apparently lets most liberals out, would be forced to say these jobs are attractive, either because of the compensation, the benefits or the perquisites.
 
There are private sector prized jobs. There is intense competition to get them.

Lobbyist jobs are prized, and there is intense competition to get a cushy lobbyist job, and there is a long tradition of stacking them with political hacks and corrupted people.

What is your point?

Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

I have made this point before, but these arguments about govenrment workers' compensation miss the point. It is very easy to tell if they are overpaid or not. How hard is it to hire people to take these jobs? In most states, government jobs are prized and there is intense competition to get them. In fact, in corrupt places like chicago, there is a long tradition of stacking them with political hacks.

Anyone with a basic understanding of economics, which apparently lets most liberals out, would be forced to say these jobs are attractive, either because of the compensation, the benefits or the perquisites.
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