Starting Over ..............

[Cutten]

Quote from GodsGift:

The fact that I would post a cautionary tale about a topic (being a fish) that often takes people a lifetime learn is a service that should be provided more often. You should be thanking me - it cost me all my money and a year's worth of earning to learn it on my own.

But that isn't necessarily the right lesson to learn. For example, I did the same as you, quit work with about 15k in savings (some of which I had made playing poker in casinos, ironically enough) and went to trade. 4 years later I had made over 1 million and despite a few bumps along the way it's worked out even better than I hoped. If I had "learned your lesson" I would be stuck in a job I didn't really like, wondering what could have been.

Your decision was not a mistake to be learned from. It was the right thing to do. You went out and took a shot. You found out trading was not for you. That then forced you to decide to pick yourself up and make something of yourself in a field you are better at, and you seem to be doing well at it. If you had not left and tried the trading, you might simply have coasted along and be spinning your wheels. You risked one year of your life to have a shot at a dream, it didn't work but now you have another worthy goal to pursue, which is working far better. I would say you have done quite well out of your apparent "failure".

Now consider someone who is simply not cut out to be a team-player or executive material, but who has a particular talent & passion for trading and the markets. By telling them to "learn your lesson" and never even try, you may be influencing them into a life of mediocre underachievment and unhappiness at something they will never be good at.

At 18 lots of young girls want to become actresses. Most fail, and revert to more conventional jobs. But that does not mean it was wrong to try.

 

[Cutten]

Quote from seadog:

Could we get back to the purpose of my discussion forum?
This banter is not helping my cause, which is getting back to trading
seadog

If your system is genuine, meaning that you have thoroughly tested it, then you should be able to find a backer and/or partner. Network and ask around. Or alternatively, just work and save up $15k if that's what you need to trade it.

However, the odds are that your system doesn't actually have an inherent edge.

 

[Qwerty]

learn & understand how to read PRICE seadog, i've noticed that traders who consistently lose cannot interpret this war that is occuring between buyers & sellers.

A trader who understands price knows instantly if it's advantagous to buy or sell
at any time, while the trader who uses technical indicators is like a monkey that follows orders.

 

[prince-in-jail]

Quote from mayo367:

learn & understand how to read PRICE seadog, i've noticed that traders who consistently lose cannot interpret this war that is occuring between buyers & sellers.

A trader who understands price knows instantly if it's advantagous to buy or sell
at any time, while the trader who uses technical indicators is like a monkey that follows orders.

Any links or resources on the web that gives one a clue on what interpreting the price is all about and what to look out for? Thanks

 

[scarylarry]

Quote from GodsGift:

This past weekend, I went to a Gambler's Anonymous Meeting just to see how the extreme end of the fish pond lives. And I gotta say, the things that were said closely resemble this board - and this thread specifically.

Before you go work as a valet in Las Vegas to fund your losing trading system, first watch Rounders and then Two For The Money.

I'm speaking from experience as a failed day trader in his late 20s. Two years ago, I took an entire year off work to daytrade. I lost all my money (about 10k) and lived like a peasent. Now, I manage projects for banks making around 1k per day. The experience was life-changing and made me realize (at least me personally) that the market is a great way to preserve wealth, but the surefire way to get rich is through success in business. It's not as stark of a contrast to the markets as you think: Many people work for crap pay so that guys like me, who command a premium, can be retained. I take from those who are weak and pocket excess rents in-line with what the labor market will pay me. The correlation ends there, however, as my life in business has positive expectancy whereas my daytrading careeer did not. In business, I create my own durable competitive advantage in the form of sharp and crisp communication skills, executive-level presence, and a conceptual grasp of relevant issues.

Steve Cohen and Paul Tudor Jones are truly the outliers and it's foolish to live one's life seeking to approximate their achievements.

To be clear, I live my life with a sense of destiny and purpose and I have every inention of getting rich. No 30-year tenured middle management position is in my future. However, there is a difference between getting up everyday and going to work and getting up and hoping that the market will give you enough to eat. Call it your "system," but the bottom line is that those who move to LV and work like humps to fund their daytrading "system" are fish and nothing more.

LMAO! So let me get this right. You do all this , but u still come around the ET boards to what? Give your unwanted, losing persona to someone else whose lost?

Guys like you are one thing: Assholes. end of story. But you know that already don't you? I mean, after all, you have "conceptual grasp of relevant issues".

The relevant issues here and now are:
*You are a fucking loser and you know it.

*You already failed as a trader because all you are really is a paper pushing dolt with a college degree (maybe) that can't think out of the box let alone work in the most competetive environment on earth.

*You figured "Hey what the heck, I'm a loser but if I go on ET and write a few lines about "conceptual relevant issues" I will not only feel important, but I may just be able to convince someone else how important (and delusional) I am.

So go and live your life with your self percieved sense of purpose and destiny and don't foget to stop at Wal-Mart and get a new box of #2 pencils and one of those little plastic pencil sharpeners. If you look hard enough you can get one that'll fit in your pocket protector.

 

[seadog]

mayo367
Thank you for the suggestion.
I trade the s&p mini, the technical studies are about the best data for trading.I also use chart patterns, and watch the internals of the NYSE. Also watch the "tick", and daily news events.
seadog

 

[u21c3f6]

Quote from seadog:

Have a profitable s&p mini daytrading program. Took a hit and know why. Want to get back to trading. Have absolutely no money or credit. Have the drive and a profitable trading program. Profits are made from trading, not commissions. Was a stockbroker for 6 years and selfemployed for 12 years. Willing to relocate.
Looking for input/ideas/suggestions.
Thanks,
Seadog

I don't want to rain on your parade but here is my honest opinion.

You write that you have a profitable system, but took a hit (apparentely broke). Well, the two don't go together. You write that you know why, but I would say that you "think" you know why "this time".

Many have written that they have a "profitable" system except for that one unforeseen event, or indicator missed or some other rationalization as to why their "profitable" system failed.

This is not to say don't try, just try to be more realistic as to why you think your system is profitable. Most proof in this area is severely lacking. Any system can be shown to be profitable with the right data.

Make sure your system truly has an edge and not just a product of circumstance. In my opinion, get a better job first to expand your possibilities. Good luck.

 

[mingsphinx]

An honest post and one that says much about author. The attacks are also revealing but they speak to the vested interests that many people in the business have in keeping the fishes in the industry hoping, trading and losing. When done right there is little about trading that is half as exciting and soul entrancing as what some people like to make it out to be. Regardless of what you trade, if you are successful, your day is almost certain to be one spent gathering and assimilating as much data as you can. Dumbly watching a price chart and placing faith in a "system" is what the fishes do.

The difference between gambling and trading/investing is that gamblers do it to feel good, the trader/investor does it to make money. And if lucre is the juice that you are after then dealing with bad emotions is a necessary part of the equation. The gains in the market do not come without a proportion of psychic pain. Because none of us really know what the future holds, and uncertainty imposes a heavy burden, markets are designed to make people feel bad and act irrationally. Hence, when the many gamblers come to the table, they are invariably wiped clean because they walked into the game seeking a good time. In a crunch, and with their system, one bad call follows another as they chase that elusive high.

I have a feeling though that GodsGift will return to gambling. The reasons drip in the words he writes. Too much pain and he wants to forget. The funny thing about making a lot of money is that it does not make you feel any better. More often than not it just gives you a lot more time and space to brood over memories that grow more unbearable with each passing day.

But it is very foolish to believe that you can approximate the achievements of the outliers like Paul Tudor, Steve Cohen, Ken Griffin and the like. It is not entirely about intellect, personality or even luck. What they do you do not know. Most of us only realize that we have a conscience when we are confronted with the impossible decision of having to give it up.

Quote from GodsGift:

This past weekend, I went to a Gambler's Anonymous Meeting just to see how the extreme end of the fish pond lives. And I gotta say, the things that were said closely resemble this board - and this thread specifically.

Before you go work as a valet in Las Vegas to fund your losing trading system, first watch Rounders and then Two For The Money.

I'm speaking from experience as a failed day trader in his late 20s. Two years ago, I took an entire year off work to daytrade. I lost all my money (about 10k) and lived like a peasent. Now, I manage projects for banks making around 1k per day. The experience was life-changing and made me realize (at least me personally) that the market is a great way to preserve wealth, but the surefire way to get rich is through success in business. It's not as stark of a contrast to the markets as you think: Many people work for crap pay so that guys like me, who command a premium, can be retained. I take from those who are weak and pocket excess rents in-line with what the labor market will pay me. The correlation ends there, however, as my life in business has positive expectancy whereas my daytrading careeer did not. In business, I create my own durable competitive advantage in the form of sharp and crisp communication skills, executive-level presence, and a conceptual grasp of relevant issues.

Steve Cohen and Paul Tudor Jones are truly the outliers and it's foolish to live one's life seeking to approximate their achievements.

To be clear, I live my life with a sense of destiny and purpose and I have every inention of getting rich. No 30-year tenured middle management position is in my future. However, there is a difference between getting up everyday and going to work and getting up and hoping that the market will give you enough to eat. Call it your "system," but the bottom line is that those who move to LV and work like humps to fund their daytrading "system" are fish and nothing more.

 

[GodsGift]

Quote from mingsphinx:

An honest post and one that says much about author. The attacks are also revealing but they speak to the vested interests that many people in the business have in keeping the fishes in the industry hoping, trading and losing. When done right there is little about trading that is half as exciting and soul entrancing as what some people like to make it out to be. Regardless of what you trade, if you are successful, your day is almost certain to be one spent gathering and assimilating as much data as you can. Dumbly watching a price chart and placing faith in a "system" is what the fishes do.

The difference between gambling and trading/investing is that gamblers do it to feel good, the trader/investor does it to make money. And if lucre is the juice that you are after then dealing with bad emotions is a necessary part of the equation. The gains in the market do not come without a proportion of psychic pain. Because none of us really know what the future holds, and uncertainty imposes a heavy burden, markets are designed to make people feel bad and act irrationally. Hence, when the many gamblers come to the table, they are invariably wiped clean because they walked into the game seeking a good time. In a crunch, and with their system, one bad call follows another as they chase that elusive high.

I have a feeling though that GodsGift will return to gambling. The reasons drip in the words he writes. Too much pain and he wants to forget. The funny thing about making a lot of money is that it does not make you feel any better. More often than not it just gives you a lot more time and space to brood over memories that grow more unbearable with each passing day.

But it is very foolish to believe that you can approximate the achievements of the outliers like Paul Tudor, Steve Cohen, Ken Griffin and the like. It is not entirely about intellect, personality or even luck. What they do you do not know. Most of us only realize that we have a conscience when we are confronted with the impossible decision of having to give it up.

I agree with everything in your post. The only reason that I did not, and don't (though perhaps incorrectly), consider myself a gambling addict is because I gave up when I saw it devolving to the point of unlikely return. I only traded for a year. But, during that time, I lived in a 4x6 room in NYC and did shit odd jobs on the weekend to make ends meat. I was always depressed. It sucked. The types of people I was around at the trading firm were losers too. Everybody was pretty much in the same boat. And, those that did make money couldn't even explain in general terms how they did it (and few of them were even consistent).

However, because of the fact that I didn't experience the extremes of addiction many must in order to shake a gambling habit (losing one's IRA, family, etc), I AM scared that I didn't lose enough. And that's the purpose of my posts: 1) To remind myself that seemingly rational decisions (investing, trading, a weekend trip to Vegas) can easily turn into binges, and 2) To make my perspective known to those like me who are on this site.

 

[bravochico]

Godsgift. Agreed that daytrading is a loser's game. But if you think that there aren't guys trading and increasing their net worths by 50 - 100% every few years , your'e just not correct. And I'm not talking about just making what the sp500 gives your long positions every year. Lastly, Cohen and Tudor make the bulk of their gains position trading, not daytrading. You have little knowledge on trading in general. Readers beware.