The anti hedge fund criticism on this thread is ridiculous and self-serving. Besides the pre posted obvious, that some of the wealthiest individuals in the industry (in fact almost ALL of the super wealthy traders) are fund managers (including Buffet by the way), what makes a prop firm anything more then a glorified hedge fund. Don obviously thinks his 10mil gets a better return on the commissions and desk fees of his "partners" then him putting it to work in the market. Aren't prop firms essentially short puts on their traders equity. Trading on one's own is great if you've got a huge stake, but trying to hammer out 100% plus returns every year just to live, and build up on's account gets real old.
Starting a Hedge Fund
- Thread starter ktm
- Start date
These posts have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous. I have said go ahead and start a fund, let us know how you're doing.
I love it when the snake oil people (not you guys, but the "vendors" with "systems") point to Warren Buffet and others, as if that has something to do with whatever point they are making.
Start a hedge fund....make a billion...let us know how you are doing. For the other 99.9% who are simply trying to make a few hundred grand a year trading, Gene, Jeff, and I will continue to offer our services.
All you have to do is find a bunch of people who have a lot of money to donate...do well, and grow.....how tough can that be?
Seriously, good luck!!
all the best!!
I love it when the snake oil people (not you guys, but the "vendors" with "systems") point to Warren Buffet and others, as if that has something to do with whatever point they are making.
Start a hedge fund....make a billion...let us know how you are doing. For the other 99.9% who are simply trying to make a few hundred grand a year trading, Gene, Jeff, and I will continue to offer our services.
All you have to do is find a bunch of people who have a lot of money to donate...do well, and grow.....how tough can that be?
Seriously, good luck!!
all the best!!
I am not looking for a confrontation either (although you seem to continue the debate until cornered). However, you hold yourself out as an expert on the industry, hedge funds, etc, and then you throw out comments like the one I previously cited. If you are so wrong (I believe) on this, how can people have confidence on the other things you say? Please explain to me how a hedge fund manager that has a few million of his own money in a fund is unable to keep the profits off that few million?
I know this is a small point and inconsequential, but do you really believe what you are saying or are you just trying to stick to your position that prop firms are better in every situation without having to admit you are wrong?
I know this is a small point and inconsequential, but do you really believe what you are saying or are you just trying to stick to your position that prop firms are better in every situation without having to admit you are wrong?
No problem, and if you want to do anything else with your life - please don't hesitate to ask my permission..
Thanks for keeping a bit levity in all this...
Ok, that's the way I like it too....
:0))
Everybody should see this trading as
a game that one wants to win and not
be to focused on the money.
Trade for succes and the money will follow.
It's like with everything in life.
Do what you really like, for which you have
a passion and succes will follow almost
guaranteed.
Sorry, I don't want to sound like a preacher !
That's it.
:0))
Everybody should see this trading as
a game that one wants to win and not
be to focused on the money.
Trade for succes and the money will follow.
It's like with everything in life.
Do what you really like, for which you have
a passion and succes will follow almost
guaranteed.
Sorry, I don't want to sound like a preacher !
That's it.
I thought I was done, but I don't like having my honesty or credibility questioned. Where in the world did I say that using your own money ("millions") to trade with was wrong. A "hedge fund" by definition is using "other people's money" and has nothing to do with a trader using his own capital to trade with.
There is no "sticking to a position' here, and I am incorrect or wrong about many things....and a difference of opinion based on experience does not equate to being "wrong" about anything.
So, in the interest of peace: 1. Trading with your own capital can be better than trading with a prop firm (although you assume all the risk, which you don't with a prop firm, you do get to keep all the profits). 2. If you raise millions, and can keep it working well, great!! 3. Sharing profits is not better than keeping 100% of them.
Keep smiling....let's all make some money. And let's leave Warren Buffett out of all this....I am still upset that he didn't come to my OMAHA trading workshop (so he could learn how to trade properly)..
Recently, I have seen two types of Hedge Funds.
One is where a Trader has a number of people
(friends, family, etc.) that want to invest money
and have him trade it. The start-up costs for this
type of hedge fund is considerably less than a
"full-scale" hedge fund but still put you 25-30K in
the hole normally to set up the L.P. or LLC.
An "full-scale" hedge fund that goes out with all
the legal paperwork and is targeted to be sold
to "qualified investors" will normally cost in the
order of 75K-90K to set up if you expect third parties
to sell it.
Due to these type of start-up costs; it is normally wise
only to start a "full-scale" hedge fund if a significant
amount of money is taken in ..... over 10M for starters.
The other issue with hedge funds is that the average
sized hedge fund which is greater than $100M would be
difficult to short-term trade (day-trade). The sheer
size of the fund makes it very hard to get in/out with
size and generate profits based on standard day-trading
tactics. If you use only a portion of your capital in trading
then you will be in a position of generating very poor
returns for the overall fund (heh, bubba ... I had a great day
trading, I am up $3K on 26,000 shares.... if I keep this up
the fund will return 3% this year).
This means that most funds that are focussed on "short
term trading" as a strategy usually must swing trade using
multi-day time frames and very large lots to be successful.
Put 2% of a 100M fund at risk and you will get the picture of
the required size. (ring.. hello broker I would like to buy 200K
shares on JNPR)... this will look good at the bid on L2.
- Greg
One is where a Trader has a number of people
(friends, family, etc.) that want to invest money
and have him trade it. The start-up costs for this
type of hedge fund is considerably less than a
"full-scale" hedge fund but still put you 25-30K in
the hole normally to set up the L.P. or LLC.
An "full-scale" hedge fund that goes out with all
the legal paperwork and is targeted to be sold
to "qualified investors" will normally cost in the
order of 75K-90K to set up if you expect third parties
to sell it.
Due to these type of start-up costs; it is normally wise
only to start a "full-scale" hedge fund if a significant
amount of money is taken in ..... over 10M for starters.
The other issue with hedge funds is that the average
sized hedge fund which is greater than $100M would be
difficult to short-term trade (day-trade). The sheer
size of the fund makes it very hard to get in/out with
size and generate profits based on standard day-trading
tactics. If you use only a portion of your capital in trading
then you will be in a position of generating very poor
returns for the overall fund (heh, bubba ... I had a great day
trading, I am up $3K on 26,000 shares.... if I keep this up
the fund will return 3% this year).
This means that most funds that are focussed on "short
term trading" as a strategy usually must swing trade using
multi-day time frames and very large lots to be successful.
Put 2% of a 100M fund at risk and you will get the picture of
the required size. (ring.. hello broker I would like to buy 200K
shares on JNPR)... this will look good at the bid on L2.
- Greg
QWB-trading,
That's correct if you try to daytrade
the stock market with this kind of money
but again 2 million dollars equals with
only 20 lots in the Forex market and that's
peanuts in this market.
You will get a fill at the best bid or offer
with 20 lots, even 100 lots....in seconds
That's correct if you try to daytrade
the stock market with this kind of money
but again 2 million dollars equals with
only 20 lots in the Forex market and that's
peanuts in this market.
You will get a fill at the best bid or offer
with 20 lots, even 100 lots....in seconds