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Started the Trades
- Thread starter sfbayarea
- Start date
-23
Didn't trade yesterday as I had to do a gig. Today, one bad trade.
SPY
Sold Short 138.36 14:07
Bought Cover 138.46 14:12
Guessing it was going to be range bound and thought it was going down but the red down bars were not strong enough indicators. A 0.01 move down past the previous bar low is not enough to do an entry as I found out. Break even week so that is ok I suppose.
I've been burned on not being able to do entries on stops. Missed out on trades because of it where it just shoots right passed me. I try to do limit orders manually when the price hits but often it is too late. Missed out on a lot of profitable trades this way.
Didn't trade yesterday as I had to do a gig. Today, one bad trade.
SPY
Sold Short 138.36 14:07
Bought Cover 138.46 14:12
Guessing it was going to be range bound and thought it was going down but the red down bars were not strong enough indicators. A 0.01 move down past the previous bar low is not enough to do an entry as I found out. Break even week so that is ok I suppose.
I've been burned on not being able to do entries on stops. Missed out on trades because of it where it just shoots right passed me. I try to do limit orders manually when the price hits but often it is too late. Missed out on a lot of profitable trades this way.
Do you have a strictly defined trading plan?
Are your setups easy enough to spot that you can say concretely "This is Setup A" when it appears?
Do you know ahead of time (before you enter a trade) how you will enter, exit, and what your trade management plans will be?
I didn't read through your entire journal so forgive me if you already mentioned that you did.
If you do have a strictly defined plan, then have you been consistently profitable in simulated trading?
My guess is that although you may have taken some steps, you haven't done everything that you can before trading with real money.
Just my two humble cents sir,
Chris.
Are your setups easy enough to spot that you can say concretely "This is Setup A" when it appears?
Do you know ahead of time (before you enter a trade) how you will enter, exit, and what your trade management plans will be?
I didn't read through your entire journal so forgive me if you already mentioned that you did.
If you do have a strictly defined plan, then have you been consistently profitable in simulated trading?
My guess is that although you may have taken some steps, you haven't done everything that you can before trading with real money.
Just my two humble cents sir,
Chris.
Quote from Chris_Anonymous:
Do you have a strictly defined trading plan?
Are your setups easy enough to spot that you can say concretely "This is Setup A" when it appears?
Do you know ahead of time (before you enter a trade) how you will enter, exit, and what your trade management plans will be?
I didn't read through your entire journal so forgive me if you already mentioned that you did.
If you do have a strictly defined plan, then have you been consistently profitable in simulated trading?
My guess is that although you may have taken some steps, you haven't done everything that you can before trading with real money.
Just my two humble cents sir,
Chris.
Some setups are very high percentage and some are not. Sometimes I am guilty of jumping in on lower percentage setups because I don't like waiting which is something I am learning to overcome. Sometimes, I wait for too good of a price deal on high percentage setups which I basically miss out on. Some of my missed judgements are based on experience. The one bad trade today was another learning experience. All of them are learning experiences. I usually have an entry price in mind when I enter. Sometimes I hold out for a better deal. Today it's confirmed as I mentioned that a 0.01 lower low compared to the prior bar isn't enough to enter a short.
Sometimes I can't get in on time because I don't know how to do entries based on stops. This is something I need to work on next week and call the broker about. I've missed out on a ton of profitable trades because I do not know how to do it. My button pushing isn't fast enough. Today for example if you look at SPY at the last 5 min. The bar shot from looking like it's going down to shooting back up fast. I thought this could happen yet I couldn't press the button fast enough towards the top. It moved up 10 cents in less than a second due to those shorts forced to abandon their positions. The price I wanted to enter at was already passed up and I didn't want to chase a trade. This must've happen to me a ton of times.
If your plan calls for stop entries and you don't know how to do that, then you don't know how to execute your plan fully, which in my opinion is very valid reason for not trading live yet.
Again, for what it's worth it's only my opinion, but you need to answer the questions and tie up the loose ends before trading with your real money.
Again, for what it's worth it's only my opinion, but you need to answer the questions and tie up the loose ends before trading with your real money.
Quote from Chris_Anonymous:
If your plan calls for stop entries and you don't know how to do that, then you don't know how to execute your plan fully, which in my opinion is very valid reason for not trading live yet.
Again, for what it's worth it's only my opinion, but you need to answer the questions and tie up the loose ends before trading with your real money.
Ok.. it sounds easy for you to criticize but you haven't read my whole journal. Paper trading is easy for me and I make paper money easily and I mentioned that. Basically emotions are the problem. Yeah sometimes, some entries don't work due to bad judgement on my part. That is part of the learning process. The methods in which I use to do trades, I've mentioned. Judging whether it's going to trade as a trend or a trading range is one that is tough is the only hard part about the mechanics of trading. The more difficult part is the emotions. Something you cannot overcome with paper trades. It's all been mentioned.
Also with Lightspeed trading, their stops function do not work for their paper trading. So far, I've used limit orders to enter trades which is ok but it's difficult to get a fill if the price moves too quick. If I couldn't get in because of the stop entry issue, that's ok. Because it is better not to get in than chase something. Yeah, I lost out on profitable trades this way and perhaps that could be the difference between losing and breaking even.
I have tried to do a entry stop order before when I first went to lightspeed and it executed it as market order that I did not want. I recall the customer service guys try to make it out like it's not possible to do it and it was my fault but as I called the trade desk today, they said it was possible. The customer service there isn't very good BTW. Basically they don't want to really explain their system and deflect the blame on to you but it is cheap so I stay with them. Some probably don't even know how to do entry orders based on a stop so that's what they tell you. Personally, I do not want to put an entry on a stop in with it executing possibly as a market order which costs money because if it executes as a market order, you're in at a price you don't want. I just need to call the trade desk next week and have them walk me through it. Today I was informed that stops for ARCA and NYSE use different function buttons on their platform. Who knew? These are ins and outs most people don't know and aren't told when they start. That's why I got screwed on my SLV trade a couple weeks ago where I would've got positive gains on.
Quote from sfbayarea:
Ok.. it sounds easy for you to criticize but you haven't read my whole journal. Paper trading is easy for me and I make paper money easily and I mentioned that. Basically emotions are the problem. Yeah sometimes, some entries don't work due to bad judgement on my part. That is part of the learning process. The methods in which I use to do trades, I've mentioned. Judging whether it's going to trade as a trend or a trading range is one that is tough is the only hard part about the mechanics of trading. The more difficult part is the emotions. Something you cannot overcome with paper trades. It's all been mentioned.
Also with Lightspeed trading, their stops function do not work for their paper trading. So far, I've used limit orders to enter trades which is ok but it's difficult to get a fill if the price moves too quick. If I couldn't get in because of the stop entry issue, that's ok. Because it is better not to get in than chase something. Yeah, I lost out on profitable trades this way and perhaps that could be the difference between losing and breaking even.
I have tried to do a entry stop order before when I first went to lightspeed and it executed it as market order that I did not want. I recall the customer service guys try to make it out like it's not possible to do it and it was my fault but as I called the trade desk today, they said it was possible. The customer service there isn't very good BTW. Basically they don't want to really explain their system and deflect the blame on to you but it is cheap so I stay with them. Some probably don't even know how to do entry orders based on a stop so that's what they tell you. Personally, I do not want to put an entry on a stop in with it executing possibly as a market order which costs money because if it executes as a market order, you're in at a price you don't want. I just need to call the trade desk next week and have them walk me through it. Today I was informed that stops for ARCA and NYSE use different function buttons on their platform. Who knew? These are ins and outs most people don't know and aren't told when they start. That's why I got screwed on my SLV trade a couple weeks ago where I would've got positive gains on.
Sounds like you still need some basic education to the simple art of trading. Which in itself is a reason to not be trading live.
A stop order becomes a market order when touched. So if prices move up "10 cents in less than a second" there is no guarantee that the price you wanted is the price you would get. Most paper or simulated trading cannot be as accurate as real trading for these kinds of price jumps - and the same holds true for back testing.
Another thought - if you cannot take the trades your system says to take, for whatever reasons; fear, uncertainty etc. then perhaps you ought not be trading live.
Quote from DblArrow:
Sounds like you still need some basic education to the simple art of trading. Which in itself is a reason to not be trading live.
A stop order becomes a market order when touched. So if prices move up "10 cents in less than a second" there is no guarantee that the price you wanted is the price you would get. Most paper or simulated trading cannot be as accurate as real trading for these kinds of price jumps - and the same holds true for back testing.
Another thought - if you cannot take the trades your system says to take, for whatever reasons; fear, uncertainty etc. then perhaps you ought not be trading live.
I know that stop orders are market orders already. It's not like I haven't used stop orders before. There is always some slippage that goes with it.
As for a trading live, what is the point of trading paper and live if the only difference is emotions? There are no emotions that come into play trading paper. It is just trade or not with zero emotions. If I continue to trade on paper, how would that help me overcome my emotions since it is not real?
Quote from sfbayarea:
I know that stop orders are market orders already. It's not like I haven't used stop orders before. There is always some slippage that goes with it.
As for a trading live, what is the point of trading paper and live if the only difference is emotions? There are no emotions that come into play trading paper. It is just trade or not with zero emotions. If I continue to trade on paper, how would that help me overcome my emotions since it is not real?
Don't get me wrong I am NOT advocating that you paper trade and not trade for real or the other way around. I am simply making an observation based on the information you give.
I read someplace or heard or... a guy said that he trades small enough that the individual loss or win is irrelevant, maybe not irrelevant, but not of great concern to his bottom line. As he knows that over time his method will prevail. I have found for myself that trading small enough, relieves the concern for the individual win or loss, and I am more able to take the setups when they occur regardless of the previous win or loss.
So perhaps a thought to consider - if you are stressing about a 10 cent move and losing $10, maybe you are trading to big for your comfort and account size. And if you are stressing about being around the PDT rules amount - you might need a bigger cushion.
Quote from DblArrow:
Don't get me wrong I am NOT advocating that you paper trade and not trade for real or the other way around. I am simply making an observation based on the information you give.
I read someplace or heard or... a guy said that he trades small enough that the individual loss or win is irrelevant, maybe not irrelevant, but not of great concern to his bottom line. As he knows that over time his method will prevail. I have found for myself that trading small enough, relieves the concern for the individual win or loss, and I am more able to take the setups when they occur regardless of the previous win or loss.
So perhaps a thought to consider - if you are stressing about a 10 cent move and losing $10, maybe you are trading to big for your comfort and account size. And if you are stressing about being around the PDT rules amount - you might need a bigger cushion.
Thanks for the input. Part of the reason too that I went to GS & SPY instead of F is that those price movements do not affect me as much. I'm currently doing more observation than trading the market and if I do trade, I am a bit more careful in doing better setups. I did ok with this strategy earlier last week but fell out of it on Friday. No trades for me today and this Thursday as I have a gig to attend to in the early morning. In the meanwhile, I am doing more reading on PA principles. I have to be patient with this. I realize it's still too early for me to try to make any sort of living off of this.