Started the Trades

S

sfbayarea

I've just started trading about a month ago. When I began, I had no clue what I was doing. I was lucky in the beginning and had a 8 win streak of trades using Stochastics that I saw the day trader rockstar use on Youtube. Some I won by just holding on long enough like an hour or two (by luck I suppose). That got me hooked. However as time went on, I was losing a ton especially when I put everything into a day trade account with a 25K minimum. These technical indicators are often behind the times.

I lost 3K in 3 weeks. Talk about pain since I put everything I have into this. I felt as though, if I can lose 3 K, why can't I win 3 K? Then I started doing a virtual account using price action candlesticks. My trades in the virtual account are good now. For the most part, I can judge the market using this. After taking so many loses and chasing so much in the beginning, I began a strategy to minimize loses.

Yes, I've definitely learned to minimize losses. I don't do stop losses since I just monitor it and if the trade goes sideways, I just try to exit at the same price or one tick loss. The problem is that I can't seem to get real winners going in the real deal or they are missed opportunities that I miss the trigger on. At times, it feels like people see that I know the trend and try to psyche me out by bluffing the other way forcing me to end the trade early and taking a small loss or neutral commission loss. It used to be worse, I used to get completely psyched out by one candlestick reversal and sell for big losses yet only to see the trade develope minutes later. Does anyone else get this feeling like the MM are watching you and trying to psyche you out by betting against you on one candlestick just to get you out for a loss?

So upon my return to actual trading today, I did just one trade. I had a setup I lost out earlier on. I did Ford stock (F)

Short 1750 shares @ $11.7819 via market order
Bought to cover 1750 shares @ $11.78 via limit order

I sensed a reversal so I got out because this was around it's low of the day and I sensed it was going to break but ejected never the less. Small loss on commission only but it did go down to $11.77 during that time in which I set a limit buy cover order on yet it did not execute. I'm staring at it at $11.77 yet my shares are not covered. Does everyone else have this problem? I would love to just buy cover at $11.7701 but 4 decimals aren't allowed in limit orders. Is there a way to get around that other than random market orders?

Of course, a couple minutes later, the trade went exactly in the direction I wanted as usual. :confused:

The stock has been so choppy last couple of days where I'm just looking to bail quick if it doesn't go my way. Commission losses are better than what I losing on before.

Guess this is the problem with live trading vs. virtual. Virtual, you always get your fill ordered? Yeah, while improving my strategy on the virtual trades, I seem to do well. I had a 8 positive and 3 negative trade (one neg was just me fooling around) day via virtual last week yet can't seem to find traction on actual?

Does anyone else have the same issues? Any ideas to get around it?
 
I am still very new to all this so I have only about a month of trading experience with all losing weeks so far.

Some sound advice would be much appreciated. Thanks
 
Sold short @ 11.1515 11:43
Bought Covered @ 11.16 11.45

Bought @ 11.0999 12:07
Sold @ 11.1105 12:07

Sold short @ 11.1019 13:10
Bought Covered @ 11.1099 13:12

Sold Short @ 11.0701 13:14
Bought Covered @ 11.07 13.18

2 losing trades of a point on F stock.
1 winning trade where I got out too early, did not let it run which is my problem
1 Neutral where I lost commission (juice out)

All of these trades all eventually within a few minutes afterwards went in the direction that I wanted them to go as with my problem. I have a good feel for where the market is going but I cannot stomach the chop as I've been burned on them before. I feel as though I am close yet far from being profitable. Down -60 today

So close yet so far. As you can tell, I am good at minimizing loses by trying to get out when the stock reverses or goes sideways yet cannot win.
 
Another losing day..

Bought @ 11.15 1:48
Sold @ 11.1019 1:54

THis one hurt bad. Half asleep when I woke up and did the trade. Reverting back to old habits which are hard to break. Stayed in too long and fidgeting with buttons to sell at limit order. Should've gotten out quicker. Sometimes buttons get in the way and cancelling limit orders hurts in terms of killing time. I need to set up some hot buttons. LOL Did the ole bad habit of trading on continuation which turned into a pivot in the other direction. Pivot points only

Sold Short @ 11.1301 3:44
Bought Covered @ 11.13 3:45

Neutral like before. The direction was correct a couple minutes later but glad to get out at the time as a reversal was possible on a choppiness

Down -112 which is an ugly number.
 
Today -60

Can't believe it:

Bought @ 11.188
Sold @ 11.1601

I had the strategy and it looked like it was going my way. I had a sell limit order 11.20 and it hit that a bunch of times on the chart yet it did not execute. Then I changed it to 11.19 just to get out yet nope. It kept going down quick. I did market order just to get out at 11.601.

Keep in mind I have Scottrade and guessed on the forum responses, Scottrade is horrible for day trading. It did seem odd that everytime, I placed an order for something, something always worked against me yet I can see when I'm not in, they work out the way I'm seeing it. I called my local branch, they said they'd look into it and said that during the time I had the order in, there was nothing matching 11.20 and if it said 11.20, that occurred outside the bid and ask. WTF!!

I watched it and it said 11.20 at the end of the tic while I had it in. I felt like everytime, I got in, it did something to fake me or reverse only to go in the right direction minutes later. I'm tired of this.

If you're trying to sell something with decent size on a limit order for a one point profit, you better only consider it executed if the last trade was two points. So for Scottrade, to get a 1 pt gain, you need a 2 pt gain to execute. Horrible

Will be changing my account to another broker. Anyone wants to chime in on Scottrade? Similar experiences? Were other brokers like IB much better? No issues in exiting?
 
Here's one of your problems in a nutshell:

You aren't giving the trades nearly enough time to develop.

As soon as you are in...you are out....??? You will get eaten alive in
commissions if you continue with this approach. Remember any stock
has an average true range in any time frame that represent normal up and down movements for a current period of time...whatever time frame you are trading on will determine the type of volatility you should expect.

Simple risk management rules will help you stay in the trade longer... be a robot...it will help take emotions out of it:


1) First determine your max capital position as a % of your total capital. Remember there is always a chance of catastrophic loss at any given moment due to an unexpected event (black swan or outlier), so you always want to account for worst case scenario and make sure you always have enough to remain in the game-- figure out a % that you are comfortable with... 10-20% are not uncommon guidelines.

2) Have a max amount you are willing to lose on any trade as a % of your total capital...typically the school of thought ranges from anywhere between .5% conservatively to 2% agressively.

3) Position size base on the above parameters along with utilizing a hard/soft stop price at which point the chart proves you wrong based on average true range and/or a break of support or resistance. Make sure and at least have a 2:1 minimum reward to risk, so even if you are wrong more often than you are right you have postive expectacy potential. Example: Stock price = $ 20; Average true range on 5min chart .25 Target $ 21; I personally like a 2x ATR volatility stop-- so in this case--Stop $ 19.50. On a $ 50,000 account with a conservative .5% max $ risk and a 20% max capital position-- $ 250 would be the max loss amount which based on a .50 stop would allow 500 shares...and at $ 20 the position cost is $ 10,000 which also meets the rules of 20% of $ 50,000.

Now let the trade play out. If market conditions change or an indicator leads you to believe a reversal is imminent and will negatively affect your trade-- don't be afraid to close out the position early-- proper position sizing certainly doesnt mean always waiting for a winner or loser no matter what. But if market conditions havent changed- stick with the trade.

Scaling out in phases as price moves toward your desired target can also be utilized along with then moving the stop up-- this is another conservative approach that will drastically reduce risk first while allowing for taking advantage of continued price movement profits.

Hope this helps.
 
Quote from sfbayarea:

Today -60

Can't believe it:

Bought @ 11.188
Sold @ 11.1601
More...

What can't you believe ?? That you lost $60 ????!!!!!!! That you lost anything? That you didn't make a profit?

... that is the just the beginning of many losses. Do you think you can make a profit 100% of the time?? If you in any way shape or form harbor that belief then quit now and save yourself a lot of aggravation and frustration. Why are you exiting so soon. Is there some valid reason or strategy why you exited, other -60?? lol
 
Quote from Riffraffpatrol:

Here's one of your problems in a nutshell:

You aren't giving the trades nearly enough time to develop.

As soon as you are in...you are out....??? You will get eaten alive in
commissions if you continue with this approach. Remember any stock
has an average true range in any time frame that represent normal up and down movements for a current period of time...whatever time frame you are trading on will determine the type of volatility you should expect.

Simple risk management rules will help you stay in the trade longer... be a robot...it will help take emotions out of it:


1) First determine your max capital position as a % of your total capital. Remember there is always a chance of catastrophic loss at any given moment due to an unexpected event (black swan or outlier), so you always want to account for worst case scenario and make sure you always have enough to remain in the game-- figure out a % that you are comfortable with... 10-20% are not uncommon guidelines.

2) Have a max amount you are willing to lose on any trade as a % of your total capital...typically the school of thought ranges from anywhere between .5% conservatively to 2% agressively.

3) Position size base on the above parameters along with utilizing a hard/soft stop price at which point the chart proves you wrong based on average true range and/or a break of support or resistance. Make sure and at least have a 2:1 minimum reward to risk, so even if you are wrong more often than you are right you have postive expectacy potential. Example: Stock price = $ 20; Average true range on 5min chart .25 Target $ 21; I personally like a 2x ATR volatility stop-- so in this case--Stop $ 19.50. On a $ 50,000 account with a conservative .5% max $ risk and a 20% max capital position-- $ 250 would be the max loss amount which based on a .50 stop would allow 500 shares...and at $ 20 the position cost is $ 10,000 which also meets the rules of 20% of $ 50,000.

Now let the trade play out. If market conditions change or an indicator leads you to believe a reversal is imminent and will negatively affect your trade-- don't be afraid to close out the position early-- proper position sizing certainly doesnt mean always waiting for a winner or loser no matter what. But if market conditions havent changed- stick with the trade.

Scaling out in phases as price moves toward your desired target can also be utilized along with then moving the stop up-- this is another conservative approach that will drastically reduce risk first while allowing for taking advantage of continued price movement profits.

Hope this helps.
More...

THIS...

GOOD solid advice!
 
Thanks for the responses.. I'm currently awaiting while I change brokerages.

No one said it's easy in the beginning. It's true that I get out too early. That's one thing that I have to work on.

I'm primarily using price action to determine whether I should get in or not. Unfortunately, my problem is that I just don't stay in long enough to let them develope on the profitable one and don't get out early enough on the bad ones. I seem to want to get out when I'm up 1 pt. That's the problem. It's basically the fear from those early losses in which I had no idea what I was doing that put the fear in me. I need to be more disciplined about it. I inadvertantly turned into a scalper.

I got a lot to work on but I'm still headed in the right direction. I don't expect to be profitable after one month of trading on my own without any mentoring. A lot of things, I had spent a ton of time on to figure out on my own. It would be shocking if I'm able to turn profitable after a two months.

I'll be reposting my trades when I'm back on and get everything transfered and set up.

I'm just mad about the lost $60 since my guess was right but it didn't execute. -$60 wasn't as bad as it went down more afterwards and eventually rebounded an hour later. I was so pissed that it didn't execute that I didn't trade the rest of the day and am currently changing brokers.

If my guess was wrong, it'd be on me and I can't really blame anyone else but me but I blamed Scottrade on that one. Scottrade in my opinion just sucks for day trading.
 
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