Stanford MBA vs Berkeley Financial Engineering

[trader99]

But to get to the heart of this thread, MBA vS MFE.

The answer is it DEPENDS! WHat do you want ot do in life? MBA is for general biz applications. FE is applied to very quantitative areas of finance, trading, and investment. Not very similiar things.

One thing is not better than the other. It's up to the individual.

 

[prt_systems]

Quote from trader99:

.... So, its' about $300K tops. BUT when they get out first year packages should be at least 120-130K from most top MBA schools. .........

Competition from China and India and elsewhere are coming on strong. They produce probably like several hundred THOUSANDS highly educated engineer a YEAR! That's just in eng. Now they are doing the same in biology, chemistry, physics, math, etc.

Look, the reality is companies dont hire people just because they have an MBA or PhD. They will hire you with either of those credentials provided that you have some hard experience that shows success - beyond your PhD thesis unless it changes the world and if on an MBA track then hard business experience for three to five years preceeding the MBA and in a closely related field to the recruiting company.

If you are working and developing your career while pulling in over 100K does a moment come when someone magically appears and says "sorry son, you cant advance unless you have an MBA from Stanford" ? Of course not. You are your own resource and manage your own career: if you cant do that or dont have a clue, then sure go to school for ideas. .... But, to spend 300K (or more) doing this must assume that there is something there (at the school) that cant be had anywhere else... and this idea is patently false.

I think the key point is that once you are truly educated and know how to solve problems and do research, then school of any type is of little use and really, just a time diversion. But if you feel you have not reached the point where you can function on your own merit and want to take a break for a couple of years and spend some money then sure, there are worse things you could spend that 300K on ....

 

[bwc]

What ever the heck happen to StocksSniper. You reading this? Did everyone here give you enough advise? If so, please reply so we can just forget this thread.. I think we gave enough info for you to make your decision and ultimately you know your situation the best. You're old enough to do some analysis on your own. Everyone here is just pulling you in 10 different directions and confusing you more...so do your own analysis...you want to be a trader or make money..don't you..so make your own decision due to your own analysis.

 

[Sam123]

I’m sorry for being an jerk, but this sounds like another thread from a college student who got lucky on a few trades, but does not make $100K a year and who does not make $150-200K trading part time on a consistent basis.

Quote from StocksSniper:

What is better return on investment? Risk/Reward?

1- Keep a job that pays $100K a year and trade part-time making $150K to $200K.
Promotions and rise in salary are not likely, maybe a 5% salary increase every 2 years from now on.

2- Quit my job. Do an M.B.A at Stanford (emphasis in Finance), do not trade as much for 2 years (too busy with school and projects), then find a Job at one of the big financial firms in NYC or Chicago.
Give up $100K salary, probably give up $100K to $150K from trading and pay tuition+books $45K a year.
Total approximate loss: around $500K

3- Quit my job. Do a Masters of Financial Engineering at Berkeley. Same as M.B.A. But only last one year. Therefore,
Total approximate loss: around $250K

With an MFE how long would it take to reash the $300K/year or $400K/year salary? What about an MBA from stanford? Both say in their website that the average starting salary after graduation is around $130K, but they have no statistics on where does it go from there. Even with an MBA I am interseted in working for financial companies only.

Thanks,

P.S. I don't expect a definite answer or to find the answer to my hesitation in this forum, but I just would like an opinion from people that have been in the industry for years and that will give me another perspective.

 

[Chagi]

Quote from nicholaf:

there is little opportunity cost to higher education. unless you are 40 and have a family.

dude, what do you mean you have given up a good chunk of change by getting your bachelors? you have given up nothing. you have gained so much. do you really want to spend the rest of your life fighting against the negative connotation of a college dropout? your level is already above most of the posters here. i hope you realize that.

in anycase, the original poster asked if mba or mfe. i would say mba because it is more mainstream. any mom or pop would know what an mba is. but for peolple in the know, and mfe is more quant and if you want to go that route, the berkeley one is one of the best mfe programs.

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly happy with the path that I have taken, and my future prospects look good. I have also been fortunate enough to have been able to work enough to put myself through school with minimal debt.

Ironically the term "opportunity cost" was something that I think we covered in my very first ever college class (intro microeconomics).

I should also mention that the sheer cost of post-secondary education in the US blows me away. Full-time undergrad tuition at the university I'm attending here in Canada costs roughly $5-6K per year, and I believe that the MBA program at the same university is roughly $10K or so per year. Should also mention that these figures are so low because the government subsidizes roughly half the cost of undergrad education for Canadian citizens (not sure what the percentage is, if any, for MBA level education).

Education requirements are also quite different in Canada than they are in the US. For example, my perception is that in the US you ideally need a degree from a "big name" school in order to enhance your job prospects once you are finished your education. Things are quite different here in Canada - there tends to be very little snobbery when it comes to the university that you obtain your education from. Only at the MBA level does there seem to be much additional prestige, but even then I would be hard pressed to name "the best" business schools in Canada, I have heard good things about many of them (for example a prof I had this semester used to teach at UBC).

 

[mhashe]

Chagi the Best Business schools in Canada are Queens, Ivey and Rotman. I think Schulich is picking up on rankings after their big endowment couple of years ago. Then again if you're qualified to get into any of these , you're better off going to a top 10 biz school in the US such as NYU, CBS, Cornell etc. The US programs have a more holistic approach to teaching management in a global economy than the Canadian and European biz schools, also they are much more diverse. The benefits of going into an elite MBA program is primarily to establish long term relationships with high achievers and future industry captains more so than getting an education. If you want an education you can go to any local program since the curriculum will be similar.

Now as far as the thread goes, a Stanford MBA beats anything from UC Berk. hands down. Period. A stanford MBA grad averages $500K+ 5 years after graduation. I doubt many traders make that much even after trading 30 years. Aside from the monetary aspect, the greater benefit is being able to meet and maintain relationships with other superb and exceedingly qualified individuals who are allowed into such elite programs. Last year there were over 5000 applicants and they admitted less than 10%.

 

[prt_systems]

Quote from mhashe:

... A stanford MBA grad averages $500K+ 5 years after graduation. I doubt many traders make that much even after trading 30 years. Aside from the monetary aspect, the greater benefit is being able to meet and maintain relationships with other superb and exceedingly qualified individuals who are allowed into such elite programs. Last year there were over 5000 applicants and they admitted less than 10%.

I hate to burst your bubble ... but .... there a lot of underemployed/unemployed Stanford MBA and other grads around the valley right now ..... a whole bunch that are not making 500K per year (or anything close). I met and dealt with many of these people as an advisor on various IPO's and preIPO's. Was I more impressed by their abilities than people from another school ? No not really and these folks went right down the dumper after burning through millions of dollars on dubious business ideas.

With a bit of experience in business and in life you will find that these marketing statements that you parrot from places like Stanford and elsewhere are just that ......

 

[mogul]

Quote from trader99:

But to get to the heart of this thread, MBA vS MFE.

The answer is it DEPENDS! WHat do you want ot do in life? MBA is for general biz applications. FE is applied to very quantitative areas of finance, trading, and investment. Not very similiar things.

One thing is not better than the other. It's up to the individual.

very true

for MFE programs an undergrad in math or similar is virtually required, and just calc I-III in an undergrad math program far exceeds any math you'll ever see in an MBA

 

[ssternlight]

Quote from prt_systems:

I hate to burst your bubble ... but .... there a lot of underemployed/unemployed Stanford MBA and other grads around the valley right now ..... a whole bunch that are not making 500K per year (or anything close). I met and dealt with many of these people as an advisor on various IPO's and preIPO's. Was I more impressed by their abilities than people from another school ? No not really and these folks went right down the dumper after burning through millions of dollars on dubious business ideas.

With a bit of experience in business and in life you will find that these marketing statements that you parrot from places like Stanford and elsewhere are just that ......

Well, I thought I was done.

PRT,

You have twisted this thread way off topic. Go back and look at the original options and do the math. Then tell me which is the best given those assumptions.

You have set up a whole new scenario called "MBA isn't worth it" and supported it with evidence that you know some people that haven't succeeded. It is just as valid to say you know some people that have succeeded -- wildly.

Now be fair, on average, a Stanford MBA does significantly better than the other options presented. It's not rocket science.

As to the rest of your claims, the best I can say is that there are always those that succeed with no advantages and those that fail with every advantage. On average, those who take every advantage and make use of it will do better -- including a Stanford MBA or a Berkeley MFE.

Having worked in private equity for a number of years, I'll add that the business plan doesn't mean nearly as much to me as the background/experience of the guys presenting it. A strong management team is the most important characteristic of a successful business opportunity in my experience. Good managers deal with adversity well and don't tend to present you with dog doo opportunities. When I got out of B-school my first job was evaluating those suckers and writing new one's for our investors. You can make numbers say anything you please...

Finally, pull up a bunch of rosters of well known PE/VC firms and look at their backgrounds. Unless they have significant detailed industry expertise or are serial entreprenuers, I think you will find that the vast majority in "line" roles have MBA's.

 

[trader99]

Quote from mhashe:

Now as far as the thread goes, a Stanford MBA beats anything from UC Berk. hands down. Period. A stanford MBA grad averages $500K+ 5 years after graduation. I doubt many traders make that much even after trading 30 years. Aside from the monetary aspect, the greater benefit is being able to meet and maintain relationships with other superb and exceedingly qualified individuals who are allowed into such elite programs. Last year there were over 5000 applicants and they admitted less than 10%.

mhashe,

I gotta dispute that. I gotta go with prt on this one. No, a Stanford MBA does NOT ave $500K+ 5yr after school. NO way dude!

It all depends on the individual and what they do with their top MBAs. In fact, many of the top MBAs don't move up the corp. ladder as fast as you might think.

There was a study done by bizweek a few years ago. They found that top ivies and other top MBA grads get in at a HIGHER salary and position INITIALLY. And they do well for the first 5yrs.

But if you look back in 10yrs, the ppl who run the place like CEO, CFOs,etc. are not always ivies grads. They are from decent school or even no schooling. Street smarts do count dude. But you gotta get in the door first.

To prove that you are street smart. So, those who don't have street smarts go the credential way so they can get into the door. whether they end up at the top is something else.