Stanford MBA vs Berkeley Financial Engineering

Quote from bwc:

StocksSniper,

All posts by tomcoles, prt_systems, and ssternlights posts have merit...if you
take part of their paragraphs and ignore some parts.

Basically, Getting a great education from a solid school like Harvard, Stanford, MIT..
is invaluable and the *probability* of you getting some good JOB with high salary are
greater than some non-rep school, or just no MBA. But does this MBA from top notch
schools guarantee you will stay employed?.. NO.. but the *probability* of finding some
similar jobs after getting laid off is easier..probability wise.

Remember that some places tend to laid off people who have higher salary and who
are not that important to the company. So compare that with your situation now where
if you ,knock on wood, get laid off in this 100k job of your, can you easily find a similar
job that paid just as well (aka your marketability). ..but remember like I just say MBAs
get laid off too and also I know one with MBAs from Harvard, yes Harvard, who is
unemployed for a long while and end up working in some job that a bachelor degree
will get you in. I also know a few phds, who is working in a job that a bachelors degree
can get in while other are working temporary as some no-degree-needed job so they
can get the bills paid. So like prt-systems said, finding a job is not an issue..it's what
type you get.

Sternlight said that MBA from Stanford or Harvard, etc opens up doors.. that is is true..
but it is truer what some people didn't know is that going to these top school, you
end up getting that Harvard or Stanford NETWORK. It is this network that is most valuable
once you get in. Graduating from these school and you will eventually end up
getting interviewed from another Harvard grad in those Finance places and thus
increase their chances of getting the job. But if you don't network with other people in
Harvard when you're in there, etc, than your edge is not as great. So it's who you know
from that school. But this applies to everywhere.

So if you plan to climb the corporate ladder, MBA is most likely a necessity. Whether
you will get up there or not, that is an uncertainty. This uncertainty chance is almost like
you starting your own business or trading and hitting it big. People say the days of
going to school, find a good paying job is over. This statement applies to everyone,
but much more so to people who are NOT going to a top notch school.

But If you want to just make mad money, MBA is not needed. Just ask most of the top
10 wealthiest people in the world. . Mike Dell, Li Kai Shing, Charles Wang, Bill Gates..
I know IBM's lou gerstner got an MBA, but he is not as wealthy as Mike Dell. Even
with an MBA, you might reach a 'dead end' in your career where you say, now what...
I'm plateauing. So if you ask is MBA good? people say yes, (good for what tho? ego,
prestige, bratting right?probability of 'success'..hhmm ok). Does it guarantee you to
become very wealthy, NO. Does it guarantee you to be employed with 100k salary.. no,
but the probability does increase greatly for it. But remember one thing, if you get an
MBA and got no job, people will laugh at you behind your back...proofing to them that it
is pointless.. and also if you don't earn as much either.... because I know many individuals
personally who has no college degree (just hs) and has networth over 500k. ( a few over
1.5 mil) ..and over 100k in cash savings....by first working menial jobs for a while, then
starting businesses. Their passive income exceeds their expense..some of them as much
as 4:1...so they don't really have to work and they are now just hitting 30 yrs old. I will bet
that if they ever go against some MBAs head to head in business competition, they will win,
because of their real world experience, and their witted minds to take advantage of others.
So if you have their skills and talent, you don't need an MBA to make money. If you want
climb the corporate ladder and take over a company in which you work, get an MBA.

So my question to you is 100k income, you can start other business parttime (not just trading).
And if you built a business slowly and built more, I can tell you that it is more addicting and fun
than going to school to get MBA and come up working in a corporate enivornment with politics.

just my opinion.
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Well stated,

I especially agree with the part about not having to put up with the corporate/political crap. That's huge.
 
You are wrong, yet again.

The income potential everyone points to for indy traders is very illusory because one blowup, one accident etc and your indy career is gonzo. At a top tier firm, you can make a few mistakes and you'll still be OK, get hurt in a car accident and you still have a real income.

I would bet that the number of millionaires created by top tier firms dwarfs the number of millionaires created by indy trading. So, if you play percents, thats your answer.

Maybe thats why grads of top schools run to top tier firms and not to prop shops or FX bucket shops.

Quote from Copernicus:

thats sounds as if coming from a guy who couldnt cut it.
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Quote from tomcole:

You are wrong, yet again.

The income potential everyone points to for indy traders is very illusory because one blowup, one accident etc and your indy career is gonzo. At a top tier firm, you can make a few mistakes and you'll still be OK, get hurt in a car accident and you still have a real income.

I would bet that the number of millionaires created by top tier firms dwarfs the number of millionaires created by indy trading. So, if you play percents, thats your answer.

Maybe thats why grads of top schools run to top tier firms and not to prop shops or FX bucket shops.
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i'm not playing %, obviously arcade trading not for everyone, select few succeed. there is no shame in working for someone else 12 hrs a day.
 
Quote from ssternlight:

Again, I totally disagree. An MBA is extremely useful for buying businesses -- where business is not a subway franchise. It is also very helpful for fine tuning business processes, raising capital, writing business plans, teaching you what calculations matter, how to do them, and why, etc..

Does it provide you with current best practice? No way. You get that from a job. But it provides you with all the frameworks to get going.

Could you learn it all on your own from books? Probably. But how would you choose which books and what chapters to study?

Part of what you are buying is the professor's expertise and knowledge of cutting edge issues. Another major part of what you are buying is entree into an existing network to help you get going and support you down the road.

etc...
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Problem with business is ... it isn't school and it doesn't happen in a textbook. You learn by doing. Anyone can pick up a book and read about so called "best practices". Best practices are relative: they depend upon who calls them "best". A whole bunch of the professors at Stanford couldn't run or develop a business if they tried: others can.

So, what are you paying for ?

Like I said, If you cant manage your career without an MBA the nthe problem is not the lack of a degree .....
 
Quote from Randek:

Another classic naive quote.

It's not some state college.

Stanford MBA accepts 8% of its applicants.

You obviously don't realize how competitive it is. You keep on making excuses to make yourself feel better.
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Who cares if they accept 8% of their applicants ?

There is nothing magic at Stanford - the same information is availble elsewhere. Dont get hung up over stanford, harvard, etc. If this is your focus - how "competitive" the school is then become a football player.

You dont need an MBA to make money and have a good career. Its up to you, not your credentials.....
 
Quote from ssternlight:

... Another major part of what you are buying is entree into an existing network to help you get going and support you down the road.

etc...
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You are putting a lot of faith in the school and its network. I've seen it first hand have you ? Your own initiative and connections can get you as far as the career office and alumni connections. If this network is worh 300-400K to you then by all means pay for it. In my opinion, it is not.
 
Quote from prt_systems:

You are putting a lot of faith in the school and its network. I've seen it first hand have you ? Your own initiative and connections can get you as far as the career office and alumni connections. If this network is worh 300-400K to you then by all means pay for it. In my opinion, it is not.
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PRT,

I call them as I see them. In this case I have been to the mountain and the experience was well worth the time and the money. If it didn't do it for you -- I assume you have an MBA from a top 10 school? -- then I'm sorry to hear that.

Sam
 
Hasn't the value of the MBA become dilluted over time? It is my impression that it was a bigger deal in the 1980s than it is today. It seems to have become a collasal marketing effort to convince many 25-30 year old men and women to pursue the advanced degree. Now, I know that we are debating top tier programs, so I guess this is what's at stake, but it does seem somewhat related. It would appear to me that the best route are these financial engineering programs. They appear more rigorous and industry specific.
 
I would question the assumption that if you left a 100K job to spend a year in school that your opp cost is 100K flat. It is not. Much of that 100K goes to taxes, expenses and much less goes to actually building your net worth. If you are saving 25% gross/year, then maybe the opp cost is 25K, but def not 100K.

Other than that, best of luck to you!

BTW: I read stats on HBS grads... in tech bubble times they were neting 130K in first year (average) and ~250-300K three years later.

Anyone here a top bschool grad? What's your take on the salary/cost benefit analysis?
 
Quote from ssternlight:

PRT,

I call them as I see them. In this case I have been to the mountain and the experience was well worth the time and the money. If it didn't do it for you -- I assume you have an MBA from a top 10 school? -- then I'm sorry to hear that.

Sam
More...

No. PhD.... and I taught at Stanford - which incidentally is a great school ... but ... its only a school.

If you really believe that the only way you can succeed in business is if you have a "top Ten" MBA then in my opinion you have already lost the race .......
 
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