Squawk box, big contract useful or not??
- Thread starter millydog
- Start date
where/how much do you get the SP and Oil boxes?
its useful I guess for the opening pre market call at extremes
( i.e. I remember using it the day the market bottomed in the spoos or at one of those extreme turning points
they were called up to 2 limits down but opened only one limit down or perhaps only a few handles down and AWAAAY we went
( i.e. I remember using it the day the market bottomed in the spoos or at one of those extreme turning points
they were called up to 2 limits down but opened only one limit down or perhaps only a few handles down and AWAAAY we went
You can get traders audio free if you have thinkorswim.com. It's in there, just look for it.
I find it very useful, and wouldn't trade with out it. Ben at tradersaudio is a bit annoying and gives to much info in my opinion. Tradethenews.com is much better. You get live news wire, and they calmly call out the big orders.
On Wednesday for example the ES was breaking out of a box in the morning, and Goldman bought 70. I went long on the break out, but then Goldman quickly sold 55, covering his long, so I covered mine at entry. We then, had an abrupt sell off.
Another good example is deciding whether or not to short a retracement. One day, after a sharp sell off, the ES was making a typical retracement to the 50 fib, and right in the area you start hearing all the big guys selling, and selling big. Once I start hearing 500 at a time being sold by goldman, merrill, etc..., I find it's a good time to join the party.
Okay, last example. One day we were shooting up to the moon. Not sure where to take profits, boom, JP Morgan steps in front of the train and sells 1500 cars, and then he adds 500 more. That was the top of the day, and if you didn't have pit audio, you wouldn't understand what happened right there.
I find it very useful, and wouldn't trade with out it. Ben at tradersaudio is a bit annoying and gives to much info in my opinion. Tradethenews.com is much better. You get live news wire, and they calmly call out the big orders.
On Wednesday for example the ES was breaking out of a box in the morning, and Goldman bought 70. I went long on the break out, but then Goldman quickly sold 55, covering his long, so I covered mine at entry. We then, had an abrupt sell off.
Another good example is deciding whether or not to short a retracement. One day, after a sharp sell off, the ES was making a typical retracement to the 50 fib, and right in the area you start hearing all the big guys selling, and selling big. Once I start hearing 500 at a time being sold by goldman, merrill, etc..., I find it's a good time to join the party.
Okay, last example. One day we were shooting up to the moon. Not sure where to take profits, boom, JP Morgan steps in front of the train and sells 1500 cars, and then he adds 500 more. That was the top of the day, and if you didn't have pit audio, you wouldn't understand what happened right there.
I can tell you for a fact that nobody on the institutional side is trading "bigs" only. 70 contracts by GS followed by selling 55, leading to a selloff? Not a chance.
The orders are split between screen and pit, artificially bidding the minis to trade into the desks existing offers in the pit and on the screen.
The top day with MS selling its 1500, I remember quite well. I remember it because our floor trader said they sold about 300 (he is on a headset to the desk upstairs). And we also have a link to Trade the News, which is why I remember the 1500 call.
I will point it out for the last time -- be careful of the squawk...these guys are making up a lot of things in order to stay in business.
The orders are split between screen and pit, artificially bidding the minis to trade into the desks existing offers in the pit and on the screen.
The top day with MS selling its 1500, I remember quite well. I remember it because our floor trader said they sold about 300 (he is on a headset to the desk upstairs). And we also have a link to Trade the News, which is why I remember the 1500 call.
I will point it out for the last time -- be careful of the squawk...these guys are making up a lot of things in order to stay in business.
Well, it wasn't MS it was JPM that sold the 1,500 and then added nearly a thousand more.
I've been listening to the pit a long time and I completely disagree with you.
Goldman picking up 70 at the open, in a low volume day, and then covering his long, was a great sign that he'd changed his mind.
Rarely will Goldman spend the morning buying and markets not go up. Rarely. And once Goldman covers,a simple trendline break to the down side, will most likely be profitable as well.
You have to use the pit in combination with price.
For example, market opens down 10 points. All of a sudden all the big guys are buying, and big lots. Are we going to crash?, or are we likely going to attempt a gap fill. Price goes up 2 points then, and all the big guys cover. What's likely to happen?
You need to spend about 2 weeks with it to get a feel for how it works. The important thing to listen to is what's Goldman doing?
I've been listening to the pit a long time and I completely disagree with you.
Goldman picking up 70 at the open, in a low volume day, and then covering his long, was a great sign that he'd changed his mind.
Rarely will Goldman spend the morning buying and markets not go up. Rarely. And once Goldman covers,a simple trendline break to the down side, will most likely be profitable as well.
You have to use the pit in combination with price.
For example, market opens down 10 points. All of a sudden all the big guys are buying, and big lots. Are we going to crash?, or are we likely going to attempt a gap fill. Price goes up 2 points then, and all the big guys cover. What's likely to happen?
You need to spend about 2 weeks with it to get a feel for how it works. The important thing to listen to is what's Goldman doing?
Well...we can agree to disagree. However, I will just say that many of the calls by a box are ficticious. They are used for excitement and "value" to the customer. We've had our own group in the pit since '96, so I do have a general idea about this.
My only other commment would be this : do you think that when GS buys or sells it is all proprietary? Remember, they clear a significant amount of hedgers, option houses, CTA's and hedge funds. A significiant % portion of their index operation is never traded on the screens.
So when GS buys 70, then flips 55 on the sale side, the odds are overwhelming that they are 2 different firms doing orders through the GS brokers.
My only other commment would be this : do you think that when GS buys or sells it is all proprietary? Remember, they clear a significant amount of hedgers, option houses, CTA's and hedge funds. A significiant % portion of their index operation is never traded on the screens.
So when GS buys 70, then flips 55 on the sale side, the odds are overwhelming that they are 2 different firms doing orders through the GS brokers.
