Spydertrader's Jack Hershey Futures Trading Journal
- Thread starter Spydertrader
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Thanks for your post Pepe Lepew..
A couple of clarification points first.. Traverse as opposed to transverse is a better description of the movement through the channel, although they are very similar in definition. Dont mean to be too picky
. Also, I think you have your first gear labeled as teal, which should be orange I believe. I think teal is the MA
Now on to the post, which was a good one for sure. Thanks for pouring out all that info.
I have to agree with you fully on the beliefs section of this. Hopefully noone reading this journal sides with the ET crowd that demands P&L from Spy and Jack to start to believe in this method. However, it does take a good bit of repetition and repeated drilling to be able to see things unfolding as they do. After admittedly progressing to live trading before I was ready (against advice from Spy), I learned firsthand that you do have to give yourself time to absorb these concepts and let them sink in while observing the market at a relaxed pace (ie. no money on the line). It is simply way too hard of a concept for a beginner to try and learn with money hovering like a dark cloud over your brain. It sheds light on nik's frowny face when we start to discuss P&L.
I particularly like your golden line. Surely that is the most logical path to extract the most money out of the market today. Good news is that plays itself out every single day. CO people look for indicators to prepare for future market moves, which may or may not work for them. The difference here is that sometimes a MA crossover (or your technical indicator of choice) doesnt always lead to the same thing every time, in fact quite the opposite. Here, things are certain. Of course that line is drawn in hindsight and you admit to not being at that level, which none of us probably are yet. But the information is there and it has not changed since we started this journal. All of the required info is here to trade that yellow line, it is the experience and confidence to focus and execute that is keeping us from achieving it..for now
One thing that jumped out at me after reading your post was the volume(gaussian) peaks, and how the troughs always lined up with a RTL touch and the peaks with a LTL touch. I know Spy has covered this before but I can be slow sometimes. I did pick up that if you have a trough that is not touching the LTL, it may be time to draw in a steeper channel. I equate this to dropping down in resolution without using finer level tools. I have yet to get the knack of STR/SQU, and I always have the DOM up to do the trades, just waiting for them to aid in making change/continuation decisions. The steeper channels do throw you down the rabbit hole unexpectedly though so use caution when doing so.
Thanks again to Spy, nkhoi, BB, Avi & Aurum, dkm, mak, Jack & everyone else helping to bring us all along on this great journey. Anyone know where Pr0crast went?
-John
A couple of clarification points first.. Traverse as opposed to transverse is a better description of the movement through the channel, although they are very similar in definition. Dont mean to be too picky
. Also, I think you have your first gear labeled as teal, which should be orange I believe. I think teal is the MA Now on to the post, which was a good one for sure. Thanks for pouring out all that info.
I have to agree with you fully on the beliefs section of this. Hopefully noone reading this journal sides with the ET crowd that demands P&L from Spy and Jack to start to believe in this method. However, it does take a good bit of repetition and repeated drilling to be able to see things unfolding as they do. After admittedly progressing to live trading before I was ready (against advice from Spy), I learned firsthand that you do have to give yourself time to absorb these concepts and let them sink in while observing the market at a relaxed pace (ie. no money on the line). It is simply way too hard of a concept for a beginner to try and learn with money hovering like a dark cloud over your brain. It sheds light on nik's frowny face when we start to discuss P&L.
I particularly like your golden line. Surely that is the most logical path to extract the most money out of the market today. Good news is that plays itself out every single day. CO people look for indicators to prepare for future market moves, which may or may not work for them. The difference here is that sometimes a MA crossover (or your technical indicator of choice) doesnt always lead to the same thing every time, in fact quite the opposite. Here, things are certain. Of course that line is drawn in hindsight and you admit to not being at that level, which none of us probably are yet. But the information is there and it has not changed since we started this journal. All of the required info is here to trade that yellow line, it is the experience and confidence to focus and execute that is keeping us from achieving it..for now
One thing that jumped out at me after reading your post was the volume(gaussian) peaks, and how the troughs always lined up with a RTL touch and the peaks with a LTL touch. I know Spy has covered this before but I can be slow sometimes. I did pick up that if you have a trough that is not touching the LTL, it may be time to draw in a steeper channel. I equate this to dropping down in resolution without using finer level tools. I have yet to get the knack of STR/SQU, and I always have the DOM up to do the trades, just waiting for them to aid in making change/continuation decisions. The steeper channels do throw you down the rabbit hole unexpectedly though so use caution when doing so.
Thanks again to Spy, nkhoi, BB, Avi & Aurum, dkm, mak, Jack & everyone else helping to bring us all along on this great journey. Anyone know where Pr0crast went?
-John
Who would the lucky 'few' be to make money consistently out of a group, and who would have to continue to pay tuition - heheh.
I don't imagine I need to convince you that trading is an extremely individual sport, and having a team mentality is unfortunately not applicable. The chat rooms are great for discussing some of the basics, and engaging in some camaraderie during the slow times. But when it's time to click the mouse, each is on his/her own.
If, as you have alluded, bearbelly, people have stated they intend to enter the mkt with the guns a'blazin after graduation, then apparently they are quite naive in regards to this endeavor. Anyone who has been around the block before surely appreciates the host of psychological/emotional variables that await us all when the time comes to engage the live bullet on the front end - in other words, its a rare individual that proceeds from little league to the majors.
I've sim traded for so long that I would be embarrassed to say, and I also have developed a healthy dislike for its limitations and lack of realism. But as a student of the mkts and speaking from my vantage point, for now its the only game in town. Hopefully only a few more months, but it could also be longer. I just know nothing was accomplished by throwing sacks full of money at 'em in the past. The goal is to go live, and continue seeing profitable p/l's - only then will I have achieved my personal quest. Cheers ...
I agree with your sentiment - patience is a virtue that is rewarded. Execution is on the syllabus.
When you learned to fly, I bet they got you up there solo after a few weeks though (and probably before you felt truly ready?). I think Bearbelly was simply suggesting the equivalent of "doing circuits" in relative safety.
Iâve been enjoying the posts this week. It seems we all have some opinion on how long the journey will take, when we should start trading for real and at what level. If I can throw my two cents in here⦠I have come to the conclusion that learning the JH method is more about programming your mind than anything else. The mechanics of learning to annotate charts with channels and gaussians and knowing there is a sequence to the method is not rocket science. I believe the real challenge is being able to pull everything together in real time WITH confidence. That will only come with experience. Like any profession, you must be willing to spend the time to âlearn the craft.â We all come from different educational and work backgrounds and I would venture to say that none of us learned our jobs (current or past) in a year or two or three (probably more like five, ten or twenty years). So keeping all this in mind, I stopped simming so as to focus entirely on annotating my charts and observing.
I read an interesting article in SFO magazine (July 2007) about how the synapses of a successful trader differs from a novice. An expert trader will perceive, interpret and act on the information entirely differently that a novice trader. For an expert, there is little or no cognitive or affective dissonance in the course of receiving the signal, processing the pattern, making a decision and executing it. This is why expert traders are very calm. However, to reach that level of synaptic connection can only be achieved with repeated brain training stimulation. Which goes back to what I said earlier, itâs all about programming your mind. So for me doing charts day in and day out will hopefully sink in to the point where it is deja vu all over again!
I am on the journey and learning the craft!
I read an interesting article in SFO magazine (July 2007) about how the synapses of a successful trader differs from a novice. An expert trader will perceive, interpret and act on the information entirely differently that a novice trader. For an expert, there is little or no cognitive or affective dissonance in the course of receiving the signal, processing the pattern, making a decision and executing it. This is why expert traders are very calm. However, to reach that level of synaptic connection can only be achieved with repeated brain training stimulation. Which goes back to what I said earlier, itâs all about programming your mind. So for me doing charts day in and day out will hopefully sink in to the point where it is deja vu all over again!
I am on the journey and learning the craft!
Excellent posts - every one.
I apologize for not posting the chart sooner.
- Spydertrader
I apologize for not posting the chart sooner.
- Spydertrader
Hi Jander,
Thank you for your comments and youâre right, 1st gear is the orange channel and I mistakenly use âtransverseâ instead of âtrasverseâ. Still, I hope you all fully understood what I meant
I agree with you that one must only monitor as itâs the best thing to do until you have a good understand of the methods, and a âgoodâ understanding is not only by reading the journals, one needs to have many days of real time âscreen timeâ also.
Simulating can be disastrous if one starts to do it too soon, but it also has some advantages that can be very helpful at the learning process. Some of my ahas happened when simulating. I donât know how it is with you, but spending 6 and ½ hours in front of the screen just monitoring is at times very tiring, for me itâs easy to lose focus of whatâs happening. When simulating, my concentration on the market improves and I feel much more focused.
Looking at P&L is the evil part of simulating, in the beginner you will have very bad days, you will feel very frustrated, doubts and questions will arise putting in question this methods and its results. Essentially, what youâre doing is trying to give yourself some reason for the failure. We all do that, it is how the mind works. Accept that as being normal and move on. Try to forget the bad decisions; focus only on the good ones. Always write the âWhyâ you enter or exit. When you see you have had a good decision, repeat why did you took it. This helps you to concentrate on the good decisions.
If you overcome this stage, you will be less interested in your final day P&L, and you start to use the simulator as a way to see concepts work and to see where the areas that you have questions are. Itâs my opinion to even donât look at you P&L at the end of the day. It really doesnât matter, if you win you donât win anything, if you lose, well, you donât lose anything too.
I didn't knew that 'Execution' is covered in the syllabus. I will look forward to it
Regards,
Thank you for your comments and youâre right, 1st gear is the orange channel and I mistakenly use âtransverseâ instead of âtrasverseâ. Still, I hope you all fully understood what I meant
I agree with you that one must only monitor as itâs the best thing to do until you have a good understand of the methods, and a âgoodâ understanding is not only by reading the journals, one needs to have many days of real time âscreen timeâ also.
Simulating can be disastrous if one starts to do it too soon, but it also has some advantages that can be very helpful at the learning process. Some of my ahas happened when simulating. I donât know how it is with you, but spending 6 and ½ hours in front of the screen just monitoring is at times very tiring, for me itâs easy to lose focus of whatâs happening. When simulating, my concentration on the market improves and I feel much more focused.
Looking at P&L is the evil part of simulating, in the beginner you will have very bad days, you will feel very frustrated, doubts and questions will arise putting in question this methods and its results. Essentially, what youâre doing is trying to give yourself some reason for the failure. We all do that, it is how the mind works. Accept that as being normal and move on. Try to forget the bad decisions; focus only on the good ones. Always write the âWhyâ you enter or exit. When you see you have had a good decision, repeat why did you took it. This helps you to concentrate on the good decisions.
If you overcome this stage, you will be less interested in your final day P&L, and you start to use the simulator as a way to see concepts work and to see where the areas that you have questions are. Itâs my opinion to even donât look at you P&L at the end of the day. It really doesnât matter, if you win you donât win anything, if you lose, well, you donât lose anything too.
I didn't knew that 'Execution' is covered in the syllabus. I will look forward to it
Regards,
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