SPX Credit Spread Trader

Quote from optioncoach:

Just for my own good feeling and due diligence I just want to reiterate that naked puts have severe risk due to sharp market crashes on major events and IV spikes so please do so at your own risk and not over your head.

I only like to do put ratio spreads occasionally as the naked part gives me a little more heartburn than the credit spreads.

So, do not get seduced by fat naked premium :D

No worries Coach, advise well heeded. Im very risk averse :) Only using around 20% of available margin.
 
UPDATE CURRENT OPEN POSITION SUMMARY OF SPREADS:


1. SPX August Credit Spread

LIMPING Iron Condor

STO 300 AUG SPX 1125/1115 Put Spreads @ $0.50
Credit = $15,000

STO 150 AUG SPX 1310/1320 Put SPreads @ $0.55
Credit = $8,250

COMBINED CREDIT = $23,250

Return = ~8.4%


2. CLOSED July ES Adjusted Into Put Ratio Spread and Hedges


GROSS NET CREDIT Profit = $14,375



3. ES/EW Call Ratio Diagonal Spread

Long 50 ES Aug 1330 Calls @ 1.60 ($4,000)

Short 45 EW Jul 1300 Calls @ 3.00 ($6,750)

Net Credit = $2,750


4. ES Diagonal Put Spread

Sold 20 AUG ES 1225 Puts @ 8.75

Bought 20 SEP ES 1200 Puts @ 11.00

Net Debit = 2.25 or $2,250

VIX = 14.57 [/B][/QUOTE]
 
Quote from Sailing:

That's correct.... but what if the panic selling doesn't happen.

But we traded the last two years.... there weren't many panic attacks... as the VIX fell to record lows. Placing the diagonal helps to bring in a steady 2-8% a month return while waiting.

Murray, I was just thinking the same. I was looking at Big Charts Vix below and noticed that between Feb and May there wasn't much vol spikes to place these back month puts or even help with the diagonals positions.

You mentioned writing the naked back month DEC 1175 PUT as an example. Can you also do the same on the call side?

eg. writing a back month DEC 1345 CALL ?
 

Attachments

Quote from Sailing:

That's correct.... but what if the panic selling doesn't happen.

On a second note, if you have bullets left over (say a 50% cash reserve) you can place the position during the panic attack.

But we traded the last two years.... there weren't many panic attacks... as the VIX fell to record lows. Placing the diagonal helps to bring in a steady 2-8% a month return while waiting.

Now... if you're a full fledged Maverick Fan.... you'd send the Marines in first.... ie, buy cheap OTM puts and calls when they are cheap... mostly puts. You send them out knowing they will die.... but you wait for the enemy.... (panic selling or huge market run up) and then SELL your OTM back month positions. Now, you may have lots of casualties.. 'Marines', but over the long term... you have a very nice expected return... and roll into next month positions continueously.

Your method waits for the panic... ie, the Puts you buy will be expensive, although you will be selling amore expensive back month Put. Mavericks marines were cheap... now you sell and profit larger... much. The strategy requires the willingness to send the Marines.

There is a mutual fund which trades this way... just buys... cheap OTM options.... month after month... and waits for market moves... it's rated return over the past five years was 26%. What is interesting... is you are 'black swan' event proof.
Studies have shown that the pricing model for options is skewed to positive expectancy 'way FOTM'..... problem is.. most people can't take 6 or 7 or 12 months of losers before hitting the big one. But think of the risk.... it's limited.
(sorry... getting off subject... but it's very interesting as you read about option pricing models.... us math teachers get excited about this stuff)

Back to your question.... you can wait.... but you may be waiting for a while.... so why not take advantage of being 'in' the market and still have the opportunity.

M~

I think you can start with FOTM credit spread like Coach. If the market sell off, do the diagonal. The diagonal can serve as a hedge for credit spread.

Case 1: Market continues to drop
risk management for FOTM credit spread might result in small loss, but your diagonal makes a decent profit.
Case 2: Sideway
Both FOTM and Diagonal makes good profit.
Case 3: Go up
The diagonal will make a huge profit b/c of vega.

What do you think?
 
Quote from yip1997:

I think you can start with FOTM credit spread like Coach. If the market sell off, do the diagonal. The diagonal can serve as a hedge for credit spread.

Case 1: Market continues to drop
risk management for FOTM credit spread might result in small loss, but your diagonal makes a decent profit.
Case 2: Sideway
Both FOTM and Diagonal makes good profit.
Case 3: Go up
The diagonal will make a huge profit b/c of vega.

What do you think?

You want to do a put diagonal with the VIX relatively low because your spread would increase in value as the VIX would increase (to a point). If you can do a put diagonal and the VIX continues to increase on the selloff you would come out all right as long as you picked good strikes and managed the trade well.
 
Thanks M!

By "middle of the range" do you mean between the current price and the established short? Can the same be done with Call Diags or is that not a VEGA play?


Quote from Sailing:

Your profit/return is not a fixed return because the determining factor is VEGA.

Your assumptions are relatively correct. The wider or narrower the spread, the larger or smaller the profit range. But that doesn't necessary mean more or less profit, because it's really up to VEGA. Since VEGA is larger correlate with a falling market, we tend to play this position to where we 'think' the market will fall to... ie, support.... and maybe slightly outside that range. We also like to place an additional put diagonal in the middle of the range with half the contracts incase the market just doesn't move, of course this is personal preference.

Paper trade a few... the market will be around much longer than us.

M~
 
Just a follow up Margin requirements for naked ES options.

ES Sep futures ~ 1268

Sell 1 1265 AUG PUT FOP
Initial margin = 4681.87
Maintenance margin = 4345.50

So if i sold 10 contracts i would need around $46818
Premium ~ 15

Sell 10 SPX 1260/1250, margin is $10,000
Premium ~ 3.25

46818/10000 *3.25 = 15.21

Roughly the same received for margin.
 
Quote from Sailing:


Now... if you're a full fledged Maverick Fan.... you'd send the Marines in first.... ie, buy cheap OTM puts and calls when they are cheap... mostly puts. You send them out knowing they will die.... but you wait for the enemy.... (panic selling or huge market run up) and then SELL your OTM back month positions. Now, you may have lots of casualties.. 'Marines', but over the long term... you have a very nice expected return... and roll into next month positions continueously.


Taleb had better analogies but i like yours. After all we are still in a war arent we?:D
 
Back
Top