SPX Credit Spread Trader

I have account with IB, TOS, and OX.

Here is my experiment posted on http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/OptionClub/message/3148

In short, I don't recommend IB to trade SPX.
When your limit order get scrolled through, if you cancel the order and put in a new one, you'll pay more on cancel/replace charges than what you can save.

Also, if you want to trade IC in one ticket, you can't do it easily in IB.

For SPX,
if the limit price is worse than the natual quote, they will hold it in their system, until the natual quote reaches the limit price, then IB will send the order to the floor. That means it is very difficult for shaved trades to be executed with IB.


Quote from skdoyle1:

Can you define what you mean by Ticket Charges?

IB's commish schedule is hard to understand. And yes, they do have cancel/replace charges.

PS: I asked TOS to meet IB's sched, and they would only do 1.25 at the lowest. Scott said they are not competing with them.
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Quote from momoneythansens:

if a bunch of you get together to increase the size of an order you will probably get a better fill.
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At TOS, if the order is large enough, they use special guy to negotiate the fill price. It's not electronically executed. He does that for autotrade account for redoptions. It takes more than 10 minutes to do that.

I believe if we have want the same credit and spread, we can ask TOS to do this for us (provided that you are TOS clients).
 
Yes, I'm aware that you can get ToS to call down to the crowd to negotiate larger orders via phone, Live Support or "Send to Trade Desk" option on the confirm/send dialog box if you're doing more than 50 lots etc. OR......you could just trade something other than SPX lol (don't shoot me Phil)

Not sure about 10 minutes...in my experience, closer to 30 seconds.

However, I'm aware that some folks here are only doing 10 or 20 lots etc. if they get together, the larger the order the better the bargaining power....


Quote from skanan:

At TOS, if the order is large enough, they use special guy to negotiate the fill price. It's not electronically executed. He does that for autotrade account for redoptions. It takes more than 10 minutes to do that.

I believe if we have want the same credit and spread, we can ask TOS to do this for us (provided that you are TOS clients).
More...
 
I have accounts at TOS, OX and IB. TOS' platform is superior to the other two brokers' platforms. IB is the worst. You can't enter a vertical roll as one order. You can't even enter a condor as one order. Using TWS is like driving a tractor -- with blindfolds on.

In terms of trading SPX, it's all going to the same pit and I have not found any material difference between the three brokers. Yes, TOS can call down to floor but that seems to help around 10% of the time. In an emergency though, the availability of an OX or TOS rep on the phone is worth a lot... you're hosed if you need to speak with someone at IB.

I'd like to hear opinions on some of the futures brokers...
 
Quote from skdoyle1:

Can you define what you mean by Ticket Charges?
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Err....yes, good question. Well, using standard ToS published rates, they charge the lesser of $2.50 OR $1.50 per contract + $9.95 "ticket charge" (my words) for the spread.

The $9.95 is for the spread regardless of how many legs are involved.

OX for example charge a minimum for EACH leg of a spread???

IB is just flat rate per contract as far as I remember with various tiers/permutations.

Then you've got ToS' EX/RATES:

https://www.thinkorswim.com/tos/client/products/rates/rateplans.jsp

...where it's $1.25 per contract for EX/RATE 1 or $.95 per contract for EX/RATE 2 but with (silly) minimum charges of $12.95 and $19.95 respectively (but then so is OXs $14.95 mins) - this time applying to EACH leg a la OX i.e. these rates seem directly targeted at OX. If you do minimum of 20 contracts per leg on the vast majority of your trades then EX/RATE 2 is possibly the one to go for.



IB's commish schedule is hard to understand...
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That's an understatement LOL....but they is darn cheap!


PS: I asked TOS to meet IB's sched, and they would only do 1.25 at the lowest. Scott said they are not competing with them.
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Give it a few months :D

It's not that difficult to go through one's past order history (including cancelled orders) and then work out which commission schedule would have been most economical or if you're really lazy, send it off to the other brokers and get them to work it out for you. If they're interested in your business and your business is worth having they should do this for you and make you an offer I guess.

Don't forget that there are a gazillion (few anyway) different third party front end's you can use for IB albeit via having TWS open. The API allows for some interesting possibilities that thinkorswim desktop doesn't have. Though, alledgedly, ToS do have an API via their institutional plaform (Liquid) which I am yet to explore.

[EDIT] Let's face it, commission costs pale in significance next to what you lose on b/a spreads which is why quick, reliable fills and an efficient tool to trade with are most important to me :)

Good luck!

MoMoney.
 
Does this happen "auto-magiclly"? For example, if I trade in 100lots and I only shave .05 off the Mid, will this guy try and push my order ahead of the small lots and get me a better fill since I'm a BSD?? lol. Or do I have to call and bug em each time I put on a 100lot? Where did this information derive from?

If this is true, this is a huge advantage for TOS in my eyes, commish be damned, fill is what matters. I'm psyched if this is true.

sd


Quote from skanan:

At TOS, if the order is large enough, they use special guy to negotiate the fill price. It's not electronically executed. He does that for autotrade account for redoptions. It takes more than 10 minutes to do that.

I believe if we have want the same credit and spread, we can ask TOS to do this for us (provided that you are TOS clients).
More...
 
Not quite auto-magically. With 100 lots you do have some bargaining power.

Any broker can call down to the pit in the same way as ToS, it's just a question of how willing they are to do this and what kind of contacts your broker has there.

See here for three ways to do it with ToS:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=931098#post931098

See here for earlier dialog on this thread on how to go about it:

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=889119#post889119

MoMoney.


Quote from skdoyle1:

Does this happen "auto-magiclly"? For example, if I trade in 100lots and I only shave .05 off the Mid, will this guy try and push my order ahead of the small lots and get me a better fill since I'm a BSD?? lol. Or do I have to call and bug em each time I put on a 100lot? Where did this information derive from?

If this is true, this is a huge advantage for TOS in my eyes, commish be damned, fill is what matters. I'm psyched if this is true.

sd
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TradeStation?

Coach commented on TS.... $1/contract, no mins, no ticket charges.

I have not used their OptionStation software.... but they offer it free with a minimum of 50 contracts traded monthly.

Anyone have any experience with this platform?

Murray
 
No experience using it but they have said they will be including options on futures on the same platform soon (whatever that means)...so I will probably take a better look then.

Other than that, from cursory examinations, OptionStation looks nearly as comprehensive as ToS' desktop software (even more so in some areas) and they are adding things to it all of the time. Could be some serious competition...

MoMoney.

Quote from Sailing:

TradeStation?

Coach commented on TS.... $1/contract, no mins, no ticket charges.

I have not used their OptionStation software.... but they offer it free with a minimum of 50 contracts traded monthly.

Anyone have any experience with this platform?

Murray
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