I personally keep screen shots of the chart at the time of entry. I am also setting the profit target and the stop-loss level at time of entry which I also mark via color coded horizontal lines on the chart and those stay until I close out the trade. When I used CQG, I had the luxury of being able to set alarms on those lines, but these days I have resting orders on my execution platform for both profit targets and stop-loss (which are limit orders).
Spread Trade Training
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I personally keep screen shots of the chart at the time of entry. I am also setting the profit target and the stop-loss level at time of entry which I also mark via color coded horizontal lines on the chart and those stay until I close out the trade. When I used CQG, I had the luxury of being able to set alarms on those lines, but these days I have resting orders on my execution platform for both profit targets and stop-loss (which are limit orders).
One of my clients just sent me a recording from Charlie D made in 1989 during a trading seminar he gave. I'm very anxious to see it, because he very famously said that while he was a pit trader in the Bonds - that he was always 'spreading' and that was his edge. What he is purported to have meant was that he keyed his bond trades off of very highly correlated instruments in other sectors, especially currencies and various indices. He positioned himself in the pit to be able to see the huge wall-mounted live world-wide tickers in the old CBOT building.
I think these days this would be technically referred to as an intra market "lead-lag" strategy.
I think these days this would be technically referred to as an intra market "lead-lag" strategy.
That seminar is on youtube. I've seen it. Although the quality of the one I saw was not very good in terms of video quality. I've read his book and it was good and he goes into details of how he traded.
Most of those guys Bone strong armed the market, Steve Lawrence included. So the small trader might get some bits and wisdom but those guys achieved success in a way that really can't be achieved today. His personal story is very interesting though and I do recommend the book.
Most of those guys Bone strong armed the market, Steve Lawrence included. So the small trader might get some bits and wisdom but those guys achieved success in a way that really can't be achieved today. His personal story is very interesting though and I do recommend the book.
I have the book as well and it was a very worthwhile read. It might be a tough book to find these days; not sure. Love the story about how a pen was used to settle a pit disagreement.
The group of clients I took on over the winter has been paper trading in the 60-70 percentile range winners vs. losers on a cumulative basis. Max drawdowns and ROI have also been impressive on a paper trading basis. We have been holding Group Webinars on a weekly basis where we review these trades and the client's performance metrics spreadsheets. So, there is some level of third party accountability to the paper trading.
This is where I want to closely monitor these client's transitions into the live markets. It's a shitty, debilitating feeling to begin one's live trading adventures on a debit basis, and occasionally some clients live trade differently than they paper trade - the typical deviation I see is for the client to set considerably tighter stops with real money, which of course just begs the market to take you out of a trade as price action corrects and consolidates and wanders in a previously established trading range. And more times than not, that trade ultimately would have performed as originally designed if the genuine stop-loss level origination methodology as taught was followed. But drawdowns on paper feel different than drawdowns on clearing statements. Hopefully, clients have proved out the system for themselves and to themselves to the point where they maintain confidence and moderate anxiety. This is where the Skype IM's and the emails and the phone calls have to be both analytical and calm and reassuring in tone on my end. Fortunately, I don't get them on a frequent basis - I will typically meet with a client before he goes live, and we agree on a sizing and market product plan based on his capitalization and risk tolerance.
This is where I want to closely monitor these client's transitions into the live markets. It's a shitty, debilitating feeling to begin one's live trading adventures on a debit basis, and occasionally some clients live trade differently than they paper trade - the typical deviation I see is for the client to set considerably tighter stops with real money, which of course just begs the market to take you out of a trade as price action corrects and consolidates and wanders in a previously established trading range. And more times than not, that trade ultimately would have performed as originally designed if the genuine stop-loss level origination methodology as taught was followed. But drawdowns on paper feel different than drawdowns on clearing statements. Hopefully, clients have proved out the system for themselves and to themselves to the point where they maintain confidence and moderate anxiety. This is where the Skype IM's and the emails and the phone calls have to be both analytical and calm and reassuring in tone on my end. Fortunately, I don't get them on a frequent basis - I will typically meet with a client before he goes live, and we agree on a sizing and market product plan based on his capitalization and risk tolerance.
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Bone I'm curious what performance metrics either you or your clients use to evaluate their strategies.
A client's performance metrics spreadsheet is a cumulative, OTR living document that they send to me each time they open a new paper trade. The spreadsheet will include closed trades, open trades, win rate, avg win, avg loser, ratio of avg win vs losers, initial trade RR, initial trade risk in $, days in trade, max dd, net return, avg return, std. dev of net return and avg returns, winrate trail 20, winrate trail 30, and typically a chart of cumulative P&L. I've gone through several iterations of the spreadsheets and typically big improvements come from experienced clients who allow me to share improvements with the other clients.
I have been getting more new clients who come to me as very experienced options spread traders. Looking for an additional revenue stream by incorporating futures spread trading into their portfolio.
These are typically very risk averse personalities looking for a moderately elevated risk profile in a measured, systematic approach.
These are typically very risk averse personalities looking for a moderately elevated risk profile in a measured, systematic approach.
BONE, please can you share with the rest of the people on this website, some knowledge or edge that might back up your claims of being a 'professor' to help justify the outrageous fee you claim to charge!!
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