Spread the Wealth

Quote from wjk:

We actually joke about it quite a bit. I know a few small contractors who skipped a little here and there, and then got caught. It cost them much, much more. In a way, though, that's why I can relate to the plumber in the article. I don't think the majority of our politicians know about that little self employment thing. Lot's of us out here.

I don't mind paying my fair share, when it's fair. The fact that I'm a self starter requires me to pay tax on an amount that someone else doesn't because he is employed by another troubles me some. I blame both parties on this one!

Edit:
After consulting with the accountant, she thinks there is a min limit where I don't have to pay on profit. She's not sure, but thinks it's $400.

I've been through a few accountants and CPA's and attorneys, the attorneys were the worst. There are legal tax methods to drastically reduce taxes and defer taxes. Everyone should have a second business or two set up in a corp. and take advantage of the benefits congress gave us in the tax laws. The big boys are doing this and all us little guys should be too. Before I got a handle on my taxes I busted my ass as a contractor for years, after taxes and business insurance I never had anything left. I was working full time for the IRS and the commercial insurance companies. I've got a handle on the taxes now, but I'm still working on an how to save on the insurance.
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

Did you see the last debate? You tell me who was the more non-committal about increased spending.

In case you missed it, my question was: has McCain acknowledged that the economy has changed his ballgame.

From the last debate: "Let's not raise any taxes" - John McCain

The short, direct (& accurate) answer to my question is "no". I'm not entirely sure why you'd rather proceed along such a long, convoluted road (to nowhere).

Must be a 'Conservative' thang.
 
Quote from BlindLemonBoosh:

The paper value of his holdings do absolutely nothing to enhance his standard of living until the time at which they are sold and used for an alternate (consumptive) purpose. 'Bread' is without real utility unless it is actually consumed. So, your point misses the mark, as the concern here is not of paper profits, but of living standards.

A genuine issue of fairness does arise when one questions why capital gains and dividends are taxed at a lower rate than the marginal income of a married person making as little as 65,100. Why should "sitting on your ass income" be given preferential treatment to "working" income? ('Conservatives' habitually spew an abundance of ill-conceived "answers" to this query.) Warren Buffet is unusual in the world of rich white guys in that he interconnects this question to a wide public audience.

The amount of progressivity in the income tax system could be attenuated by recognizing a simple mathematical truism: $1=$1, regardless of the origin. Of course, that would mean raising cap gains & dividend taxes...but, fair is fair & $1=$1.

The real question is not why should income and LT cap gains be taxed at different rates but rather why should cap gains be taxed at all? Some of the most dynamic economies in the world don't tax them or tax them at very low rates.

If you want to encourage an economy of people sitting around investing in muni bonds, then by all means put punitive rates on cap gains and dividends. If you want to encourage investment and risk taking, experience teaches us that low or zero rates is the way to go.

Liberals have an obsessive desire to control other people. They want to control where you live, what you drive, what you eat, what you can watch on Tv or listen to on the radio. They want to control what your children think. Of course, they want to control your assets. In fact, getting control of other people's money is the foundation principle of liberalism. Conservatives donate large sums to groups they support. Liberals want to force others to support them and their pet causes. Is it a coincidence that liberal politicians are regularly revealed to give little or nothing to charity?

Understanding this, we can see that low taxes on investments is directly contrary to the central governing tenent of liberalism. They hate the idea of you deciding where to invest. They want to make that decision for you. So you get all these crazy tax rebates for doing things they want you to do, you get these so-called public/private partnerships, which are really just slush funds, and you get this socialistic "spread the wealth"nonsense as a reason to raise taxes.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

Your ideas about taxes are so confused it's hard to unravel them. You continually confuse the concepts of wealth and income. One is taxed and one isn't.

People making $50k certainly pay next to nothing in income taxes, and they pay far less on a percentage basis than someone in the max marginal rate. I wouldn't call them middle class either, unless maybe they are living in a very low cost area. The rest of your comments about "wealth trickling down" and "income being redistributed to the wealthy" make even less sense than Obama's "spread the wealth" philosophy.

Rather than debate this stuff with you endless and fruitlessly, let me just put forth a couple of principles. One, I think the purpose of the tax system should be to fund the government with the least possible harm to the economy. We end up with suboptimal tax schemes when we start trying to punish one group or reward another using the tax system. If the objective is to cause the least harm to the economy, at least everyone is focused on the same goal and we can debate the methods rationally rather than get caught up in demagoguery. Of course, democrats object to this principle because for them, the purpose of the tax system is to buy votes and make class envy appeals.

Two, I agree with liberals that vast and persistent wealth disparity is a potential problem. But statistics can hide as much as they reveal. Is there mobility between income strata? That is a good thing. If we are constantly adding poor people at the bottom of the ladder through immigration, etc, then we will always have a "statistical" problem, but if they are able to rise over generations, then it is much less of a social problem. The way to address this issue is to limit immigration by poor and unskilled people and make it easier for wage earners to accumulate capital. Current policies do the opposite. We allow unchecked immigration but our tax system penalizes savers. Obama would make it worse.

Three, taxes should be spread over as wide a base as possible. Obama has famously claimed to "unite us", but his tax policies, like the rest of his policies, would do the opposite. He pits one class against another and had the audacity to criticize a working man for not "sharing the wealth." When a significant percentage of the population pays little or nothing in taxes, they have every incentive to want lavish government programs. After all, they're not paying for them. While a vast expansion of goverment and dependency on government are exactly what democrats want, it is clearly not in the interests of the country. We need only look at other countries that pursue such policies, such as in latin america, and we see social division, tax fraud on a vast scale with all the corruption it engenders and dysfunctional government. Obama seemed to be quite comfortable in the pervasive corruption of chicago machine politics, but most of us aspire to something better for our country.

I would like to nominate AAA for President.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

The real question is not why should income and LT cap gains be taxed at different rates but rather why should cap gains be taxed at all?

No, the question remains as originally stated: "Why should "sitting on your ass income" be given preferential treatment to "working" income?" You haven't answered it.
 
Hey FUCKWAD: McCain spoke about cutting taxes, cutting entitlements, cutting EVERY NON DEFENSE PROGRAM in the Federal budget. Period. That was in response to a question about What's Changed. Obama didn't mention ONE SPECIFIC ITEM that HE would cut. I'm sure it pisses socialists like yourself off but no McCain isn't going to RAISE taxes. Nor is he going to INCREASE spending. That's Obama's gig......




Quote from BlindLemonBoosh:

In case you missed it, my question was: has McCain acknowledged that the economy has changed his ballgame.

From the last debate: "Let's not raise any taxes" - John McCain

The short, direct (& accurate) answer to my question is "no". I'm not entirely sure why you'd rather proceed along such a long, convoluted road (to nowhere).

Must be a 'Conservative' thang.
 
Quote from wjk:

Interesting exchange. Can be viewed at FOX via Breitbart, but knowing how some feel about that station, I won't waste time with a link.

Obama wants to spread the wealth: Is this socialism, or not?

"Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?" the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed "more and more for fulfilling the American dream."

"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too," Obama responded. "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

This exchange is hihgly instructive on a number of levels. Too bad McCain won't make anything out of it.

Socialists like Obama look at the economy as a fixed pie. If Pabst gets too much, some poor person got too little. Basically, Pabst took the poor person's rightful share. So Obama naturally sees the job of government is to "spread the wealth." He thinks it is only fair that he decide how much the rich person has to kick back to the poor.

People like Obama who have little or minimal private sector experience easily fall into the habit of thinking that the government is responsible for society's wealth. They don't understand that wealth creation is a dynamic process, and that over time, with proper policies, a rising tide lifts all boats.

JFK understood that principle. Somewhere along the line, democrats lost it and decided that class warfare suited them better.

I wish that plumber had told Obama if you want to spread the wealth around, then do everything possible to let people like me expand our businesses, hire more people and let them keep what they earn.
 
Quote from AAAintheBeltway:

If you want to encourage an economy of people sitting around investing in muni bonds, then by all means put punitive rates on cap gains and dividends.

A punitive rate would be one in which a "sitting on your ass" dollar was taxed at a higher rate than a "working for your bread" dollar". I suggested a dollar for dollar equivalence. Nothing punitive about it.

The rest of your post was an ideological rant which won't be addressed here.
 
Quote from BlindLemonBoosh:

No, the question remains as originally stated: "Why should "sitting on your ass income" be given preferential treatment to "working" income?" You haven't answered it.

It's a question of whether or not you want to encourage investment and risk taking, ie the sort of behavior that has been proved over time in many different countries to grow wealth, or if you want to encourage passive, risk-adverse behavior.

I doubt businessmen who are trying to create or grow small businesses consider their investments "sitting on your ass" income. The fact you do speaks volumes.
 
Word of the day "FUCKWAD" I laughed my ass off when I read that. I going to use FUCKWAD at least once tomorrow in a conversation.
 
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