Quote from Girlpower:
That's a far cry from
"YM moves in chunks of 3-5 points all the time."
What I really meant was, it can and does move that fast when there is decent price action in the market. So , there is more than 1 tick risk when wrong. But I wasn't clear and I stand corrected
Your observations on ES are accurate, though you'd be surprised how much of the size is actually taken out during price moves. What happens is, the big money waits for inflection points where there is substantial resting size, and then pounces quickly, taking out a level or two before anyone can cancel. If you had 1000 lots to transact, you'd be doing the same thing.
Good luck and good trading.
spread on the Dow e-mini
- Thread starter Ditch
- Start date
YM in my experience trades with a one point spread approx 50-70% of the time. When the market is moving fast, it can widen to 2-5 pts pretty easily. On balance, I think you can figure on an average slippage of about 2 pts, although a good number of your trades will only suffer 1 pt of slippage. I agree with the person who said that YM is a good scalping market for the small trader who is only doing a couple of contracts per trade.
The thing I like about YM is that it tends to have a tiny bit more carry-through momentum than NQ and ES on a very short-term timeframe. Plus, the fact that one tick is only $5 makes it better for the small or beginning futures trader, IMHO. One tick in NQ is $10 and one tick in ES is $12.50. I always feel less stress when I trade YM vs. ES, for example. It is a matter of perception, yes. But the lower perceived risk, for me, makes me a better trader.
P L J
The thing I like about YM is that it tends to have a tiny bit more carry-through momentum than NQ and ES on a very short-term timeframe. Plus, the fact that one tick is only $5 makes it better for the small or beginning futures trader, IMHO. One tick in NQ is $10 and one tick in ES is $12.50. I always feel less stress when I trade YM vs. ES, for example. It is a matter of perception, yes. But the lower perceived risk, for me, makes me a better trader.
P L J
Thanks Stock777. That's what I thought you meant, but wondered if this might be another term I'm not familiar with.
Natalie
added as an afterthought.
In another thread, someone is asking about the market depth and why the price seems to go towards the larger size (That appears blocked and filled up) rather than the smaller. I guess he just got his answer
I was just looking at the YM Futures today and it would appear that most of the time the spread is only 1 point. If I buy at the market and sell at the market my cost for the spread is only $10. If I do the same with the ES the cost is $25. The profit should be almost the same since they both move in proportion.
I've tried buying at the bid and selling at the ask for ES to save the spread but this will rarely work when there are 100's of contracts in line ahead of me. When I place limit orders I find I spend too much effort concentrating on my trade executions rather than the strategy. I think I'll give the YM a try so I don't have to worry about all the money lost for the spread.
I was just looking at the YM Futures today and it would appear that most of the time the spread is only 1 point. If I buy at the market and sell at the market my cost for the spread is only $10. If I do the same with the ES the cost is $25. The profit should be almost the same since they both move in proportion.
I've tried buying at the bid and selling at the ask for ES to save the spread but this will rarely work when there are 100's of contracts in line ahead of me. When I place limit orders I find I spend too much effort concentrating on my trade executions rather than the strategy. I think I'll give the YM a try so I don't have to worry about all the money lost for the spread.
imho you get more bang for your buck considering current currency fixing and it follows the nas and spoos fairly consistently.
I trade it from 7 am to 1pm cst and find it to be a much more comfortable course for this old horse, who misses the days when the djz9 wuz 5 ticks wide and woe to the tweeners in that pit!
For the scalpers, those who look at your "second trade first" and all the other stuff TEQ taught ya, I'm liking the dax.
just my .02eu
peace
tp
I trade it from 7 am to 1pm cst and find it to be a much more comfortable course for this old horse, who misses the days when the djz9 wuz 5 ticks wide and woe to the tweeners in that pit!
For the scalpers, those who look at your "second trade first" and all the other stuff TEQ taught ya, I'm liking the dax.
just my .02eu
peace
tp
imho you get more bang for your buck considering current currency fixing and it follows the nas and spoos fairly consistently.
I trade it from 7 am to 1pm cst and find it to be a much more comfortable course for this old horse, who misses the days when the djz9 wuz 5 ticks wide and woe to the tweeners in that pit!
For the scalpers, those who look at your "second trade first" and all the other stuff TEQ taught ya, I'm liking the dax.
just my .02eu
peace
tp
I trade it from 7 am to 1pm cst and find it to be a much more comfortable course for this old horse, who misses the days when the djz9 wuz 5 ticks wide and woe to the tweeners in that pit!
For the scalpers, those who look at your "second trade first" and all the other stuff TEQ taught ya, I'm liking the dax.
just my .02eu
peace
tp
I have been trading the YM every day for over a year. I do like it alot but it does have some teeth that you have to be aware of. Because of its lower liquidity you can get caught in some stop cascades alot easier than the ES. I once got a 9 point slippage on a stop loss trigger. Now that same thing can be a huge advantage to a limit order to exit your long sitting 9 points above the current price. I have hit my target many times in just a few seconds because the YM ran up quickly and then got sold right back down. During this same period the ES only ran up .25 One thing i want to test is to use Ninjatraders simulated stop to try to avoid getting my stop hit and then have the YM trade right back to BE. This happens alot. On some days a wide stop will save you, on others it will kill you. The YM is just thinner than the ES and probably will be for quite a while. Now there is some things that are nice about the YM compared to ES. Because I am mostly a scalper and take an average of about 20 - 30 trades a day on the YM I will exit several times at +1 . I do this when I take a position and expect a move to happen fast. When it stalls I would rather be flat and wait for the next setup. Its easy to exit +1 or even +2 when the ES has not moved 1 tick. Now that is a 2 edged sword because you could also be down 2 points when the ES has not moved 1 tick. The YM does not like to sit still very long. It is great for scalping 5-8 points on those tight range days and the dead zone (11:00 - 2:00) One other trait that I like about the YM is that you will notice it will often move several points quickly and then pull back just a bit as the scalpers and weaker hands sell. If you are quick you can exit your position for a quick profit, then re-enter again a few points lower then continue to ride the move . These small pullbacks also give you another chance to enter if you missed the first signal. For beginners I would advise to take profits fast during your learning period. When it gets choppy its easy to be up 5 points and then get stopped out -8 because you were too greedy. Depending on the chop factor I will sometimes try to take just 3 points on my 1 st contract and lock in some $. Now keep in mind I am talking scalping trades here. You don't want to use an 8 point stop if you are trying to catch a bigger move. If you would use a 1.5 stop on the ES = $75.00 use a 12- 15 point stop on the YM. I would strongly suggest that you use a simulator front end for a while and paper trade The YM. Get a feel for the way it moves. I like to watch the ER as a directional filter. Be careful of counter trend trades on the YM they need to be very surgical (entries and exits). .... I like the YM