Sports Fans Opinion of Barry Bonds along Racial Lines

This from Dave Stewart on "Josie's"
comments:

However, ex-A's pitcher Dave Stewart wouldn't say Canseco's accusations weren't true.

"I could never say 'Josie' is a liar," Stewart said. "I don't like his work ethic, and I don't like him as a teammate. But one thing I can't say about him is he's a liar.

"As far as what Josie's saying, I can't deny it or verify it. I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen because I don't know. We weren't in the same circles, but I'd have to say he definitely knows what's going on in his circle. Nobody I associated with on the team was a steroid user (among the players Stewart mentioned: Lansford, Rickey Henderson, Dave Henderson and Dennis Eckersley).

"If this is all made up, he'll suffer some serious damages. But if you're an admitted steroid user, believe me, you'd know who uses them."
Quote from Haroki:

Mcgwire admitted to Andro - and I KNOW it works, from personal experience. I also know that traditional steroids work - again from personal experience during my college football days.

Canseco MIGHT be telling the truth, who knows. Only Mac and Jose know for sure. But that DOES NOT mean that Mac would sue Jose for outing him. Mac would have to prove damages in that case to win, I believe. And so the question - how was he damaged?

You're also forgetting that Andro was regulated after Mac's admission.

That Mac decided to retire after his 'little helpers' were regulated is something we agree on...
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Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

This from Dave Stewart on "Josie's"
comments:

However, ex-A's pitcher Dave Stewart wouldn't say Canseco's accusations weren't true.

"I could never say 'Josie' is a liar," Stewart said. "I don't like his work ethic, and I don't like him as a teammate. But one thing I can't say about him is he's a liar.

"As far as what Josie's saying, I can't deny it or verify it. I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen because I don't know. We weren't in the same circles, but I'd have to say he definitely knows what's going on in his circle. Nobody I associated with on the team was a steroid user (among the players Stewart mentioned: Lansford, Rickey Henderson, Dave Henderson and Dennis Eckersley).

"If this is all made up, he'll suffer some serious damages. But if you're an admitted steroid user, believe me, you'd know who uses them."
More...

Opinions are like assholes - everyone's got one, and they all stink......

This means nothing....
 
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

This from Dave Stewart on "Josie's"
comments:

However, ex-A's pitcher Dave Stewart wouldn't say Canseco's accusations weren't true.

"I could never say 'Josie' is a liar," Stewart said. "I don't like his work ethic, and I don't like him as a teammate. But one thing I can't say about him is he's a liar.

"As far as what Josie's saying, I can't deny it or verify it. I'm not going to pretend it didn't happen because I don't know. We weren't in the same circles, but I'd have to say he definitely knows what's going on in his circle. Nobody I associated with on the team was a steroid user (among the players Stewart mentioned: Lansford, Rickey Henderson, Dave Henderson and Dennis Eckersley).

"If this is all made up, he'll suffer some serious damages. But if you're an admitted steroid user, believe me, you'd know who uses them."
More...

Opinions are like assholes - everyone's got one, and they all stink......

This means nothing....
 
Mac could prove damages, just look at the fact that he didn't get into the Hall of Fame because of the steroid claims...people have won cases of libel with less evidence. The burden of proof would be on Canseco, and not a single player has filed any lawsuit against him (to my knowledge) for libel and/or defamation.

Mac's numbers make him a Hall of Famer, no question, and the rumors and comments like Canseco's (who gained credibility after Mac's poor performance at the congressional hearings, as well as Palmero being caught in a lie) have impacted the Hall of Fame voters, which in the end does impact Mac's ability to earn money.

People like you remind me of those who blindly defended Pete Rose for years saying that Pete wasn't lying when Pete said he never bet on baseball...

By the way, Dave Stewart's opinion does matter...obviously you don't know Dave Stewart.

Quote from Haroki:

Mcgwire admitted to Andro - and I KNOW it works, from personal experience. I also know that traditional steroids work - again from personal experience during my college football days.

Canseco MIGHT be telling the truth, who knows. Only Mac and Jose know for sure. But that DOES NOT mean that Mac would sue Jose for outing him. Mac would have to prove damages in that case to win, I believe. And so the question - how was he damaged?

You're also forgetting that Andro was regulated after Mac's admission.

That Mac decided to retire after his 'little helpers' were regulated is something we agree on...
More...
 
Quote from ZZZzzzzzzz:

Mac could prove damages, just look at the fact that he didn't get into the Hall of Fame because of the steroid claims...people have won cases of libel with less evidence. The burden of proof would be on Canseco, and not a single player has filed any lawsuit against him (to my knowledge) for libel and/or defamation.

Mac's numbers make him a Hall of Famer, no question, and the rumors and comments like Canseco's (who gained credibility after Mac's poor performance at the congressional hearings, as well as Palmero being caught in a lie) have impacted the Hall of Fame voters, which in the end does impact Mac's ability to earn money.

People like you remind me of those who blindly defended Pete Rose for years saying that Pete wasn't lying when Pete said he never bet on baseball...

By the way, Dave Stewart's opinion does matter...obviously you don't know Dave Stewart.
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So you know , without a doubt, that Mac isn't in the HoF YET because of the steroid claims/shitty testimony? (Nice to see you admit that they're only claims) Mac's own admission -which came first I believe - could be more damaging than Canseco's claims, right? Comparing Mac's case with others' after his admission is a false arguement too, so try again....

Mac's numbers, while great, don't necessarily make him a HoF'er. I've been a LOOOOOOONG time fan of the A's, from way before his rookie days, and I can tell you, he was never the type of impact player that would guarantee his induction. Just look at his record season - who won the MVP that year? Sosa, not him, because, he never impacted the game with his homers.....

Dave Stewart - good guy, admittedly, but again, it absolutely doesn't mean he's right. Doesn't mean he's lying either, and that's my point. He simply doesn't know for sure.

Mac has distanced himself so far from baseball anymore anyways that it would be difficult to show damages. He doesn't derive any income from his glory days as a baseball player, so again, how do you show damages? An induction into the HoF would be a feather in his cap, but seriously, I see no harm to his income producing ability.........
 
speaking as a lawyer in Ca - without looking it up.

I would say that both sides would make the arguments

Jose would argue any damage is speculative because there is no way to seperate out what his remarks did. .

McGwire would argue that his image and reputation are worth millions and this tarnished his earning potential.

I think the judge would let experts come in and state how in their opinin Mac would have made this much more on endorsements this much from autographs etc.

And then a jury would award McGwire serious dollars if they belived that he did not use roids.

Oh wait - that could not be possible according to some et members -- the courts would be making and appeal to authority. (sarcasm directed at some choice dopes)
 
I read Juiced. (in an afternoon, it's a quick read) Canseco's charge's ring true. There were many player's Canseco suspected (Clemens, Tejada, ect.) but he declined accusing without knowing. He say's he actually shot up with McGuire. Like Z says, where's the lawsuit?

As far as Bonds. No racism per se' although IMO surly black guys bother whites more than other asshole whites do.

Bond's problems come from three areas. 1) Poor relationships with the media and teammates. 2) Roids. 3) Never winning a Series and basking in the attention of one who starred on the national stage. Pittsburgh and the Bay Area are off the sporting map. The media is still decidedly East Coast. The BoSox get more ESPN coverage than the 5 California teams combined.

I have new found respect for Bonds. To come back at his age after injuries/lack of at-bats and find his stroke again makes him one of a kind. He's the best position player of this generation......
 
Quote from jem:


I would say that both sides would make the arguments

Jose would argue any damage is speculative because there is no way to seperate out what his remarks did. .

McGwire would argue that his image and reputation are worth millions and this tarnished his earning potential.

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Exactly on point -

And just look at Mac's character - here's a guy that took a pay CUT - I believe - to be near his son in St Louis. Has charitable organizations. Now lives the quiet life down south, working on his golf game..

Why would he want to drag his name through the mud, defending something that he apparently has no interest in revisiting?

Now look at Canseco - here's a guy that beats his wife, gets arrested speeding with an unregistered gun in the car, a washed up loser that ends up on a f'in reality show........

Who has the most to gain?
 
Quote from Pa(b)st Prime:

I read Juiced. (in an afternoon, it's a quick read) Canseco's charge's ring true. There were many player's Canseco suspected (Clemens, Tejada, ect.) but he declined accusing without knowing. He say's he actually shot up with McGuire. Like Z says, where's the lawsuit?

As far as Bonds. No racism per se' although IMO surly black guys bother whites more than other asshole whites do.

Bond's problems come from three areas. 1) Poor relationships with the media and teammates. 2) Roids. 3) Never winning a Series and basking in the attention of one who starred on the national stage. Pittsburgh and the Bay Area are off the sporting map. The media is still decidedly East Coast. The BoSox get more ESPN coverage than the 5 California teams combined.

I have new found respect for Bonds. To come back at his age after injuries/lack of at-bats and find his stroke again makes him one of a kind. He's the best position player of this generation......
More...

Spot on about Bonds - he's NEVER been well liked....

Lawsuits are a false arguement. Not all people need to have their name in the spotlight. Some people would rather fade into the background and live their own happy life.

Ok, to finish up, there's no proof of anything. Mac's admitted to Andro, and it's effective at doing what he needed. Canseco could be telling the truth - how do we KNOW? We don't....
 
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