SPOOFING is LEGAL light gray area after NY Judges ruling

R

REDP1800

I have never advoacated spoofig or manipulation or cheating in any game of skill or talent and i started a thread earlier this week about how we retail need to start MOVING OUR ORDERS AROUND and always adding orders to the limit order book as we sit and watch the markets so the data for the hft is nto as clean as it usually is. I was attacekd of course for teh mere sugggestion of trying to help us LEGALLY create an edge.. well well well.. A judge in NY basically just said you can cancel and move any orders you want on a LIVE order book. because it is LIVE and you are smart to cancel or replace orders if the market is changing. So start placing those limit orders folks and move them around a lot and then when the market is at a price you sort of like.. just hit that old freind.. BUY MKT or sell MKT and yu jsut might have a tick advantage which is what is making the hft billions

***beware of potenital widened spreads ome sudnay night and many more cancels and "legal spoofing from the HFT" they literally have nothign to worru about at this point and neither do you. Saraeo (biggest reail spoofer) will now probably get an attorney and try to get his money back as well as beign able to trade again.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/judge-...ion-case-against-don-wilson-jr-drw-1543858721
 
What to expect
1. potential widened spreads due to more mkt cancels than ever as well as a live order book with lots mroe fake liquidity and orders. It will take a littel while to ramp up, but competition will be fierce and some new algo's will be unleashed.. lotsof prop firms licking thier chops and adding back in those weird lines of code to move the market.
2. Maybe just maybe the power of the HFT wasn't enoug to hold up our failing stock market like it did since 2008 when reg nms was invented.
3. Imagine an orchestrated Government collusion to keep our stock up no matter what happens. I am not talking about the fed.. how do you combat the FED unwind.. well you control the mkt with HFT. The problem has been HFT has always spoofed but they were getting worried about possible legal ramifications and jail time etc. or being banned so now.. the market is falling and falling fast. HFT complains.. hey we are getting blamed for the mkt losses when all we have done the past 10 years is keep going up with almost no volatility. SO the GOV. says.. what do yo need.. well if we can bring back spoofing then we can get this mkt back into bull territory! how de we go about doing this? well a landmark case needs to be thrown out and embarass the cftc and let us spoof!!
BE ready for the marekt to stage a miraculous recovery into CHRISTMAS and buy the dip is back in style and it will continue because no matter what .. TUMP will not let CHINA win and we need our stocks up and people buying at Christamas.
 
REDP1800 said:
I have never advoacated spoofig or manipulation or cheating in any game of skill or talent and i started a thread earlier this week about how we retail need to start MOVING OUR ORDERS AROUND and always adding orders to the limit order book as we sit and watch the markets so the data for the hft is nto as clean as it usually is. I was attacekd of course for teh mere sugggestion of trying to help us LEGALLY create an edge.. well well well.. A judge in NY basically just said you can cancel and move any orders you want on a LIVE order book. because it is LIVE and you are smart to cancel or replace orders if the market is changing. So start placing those limit orders folks and move them around a lot and then when the market is at a price you sort of like.. just hit that old freind.. BUY MKT or sell MKT and yu jsut might have a tick advantage which is what is making the hft billions

***beware of potenital widened spreads ome sudnay night and many more cancels and "legal spoofing from the HFT" they literally have nothign to worru about at this point and neither do you. Saraeo (biggest reail spoofer) will now probably get an attorney and try to get his money back as well as beign able to trade again.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/judge-...ion-case-against-don-wilson-jr-drw-1543858721
More...

That judge is a moron. He just opened up the floodgates to more volatility. Obviously he is not a golfer.
 
Overnight said:
That judge is a moron. He just opened up the floodgates to more volatility. Obviously he is not a golfer.
More...
no.. after thinking about it a little longer.. i think this will artificailly start the bull market again and reduce voaltility. my knee jerk reaction was wrong I think. HFT Can push the market higher one bid at a time and people will deploy capital again before christmas.. I have been a bear but monday afternoon I am a BULL. I am buying into this possibly starting sudnay night.
 
I have to disagree. What Don Wilson and DRW did was NOT spoofing. DRW placed RESTING orders into the order book away from the market but within legal daily trading limits and left them there to be filled during the entire 15 minute closing period. They weren’t crossing trades or placing then canceling big orders in order to induce other traders to fill smaller DRW orders.
 
The CFTC allegations were for “banging the close” NOT for spoofing.

Placing a large bid in an order book - yes away from other price prints but well within the exchange daily price limits, and letting that order stand for the entire 15 minute closing is perfectly legal.

This particular swap market in question was very thin and illiquid. Yesterday the 10 Year ERIS Swap Futures traded 850 contracts. That’s it. If the CME wants a more precise settlement IMHO they’re going to have to lean pretty hard on OTC Swaps Time & Sales in their settlement calculation procedure.
 
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I tell my clients to avoid these illiquid product markets like the plague. In fact, I’ve got a rule for my clients about how much open interest and daily volume a product should have before they ever consider trading it.
 
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