I believe that Baron does not, and would not, intentionally aid scammers and frauds. I believe he is highly ethical, and that this is part of why ET has achieved its considerable usefulness to the trader. I think that there will always be disagreement, between honest people, as to who the scammers and frauds really are. I think it is true that some scammers and frauds are getting assistance from ET, which they do not deserve, but I think this is because Baron doesn't fully realize the truth about those particular frauds. I think that most retail spot FX brokers and signal vendors fall into this category. I think that in evaluating ET's usefulness, we must look at the big picture, and that we cannot expect Baron to have a perfect ability to distinguish the fraudulent from the legitimate, immediately and in every case. Baron provides us with an imperfect website, but it is extremely useful, and I am not aware of any comparable alternative. I have also learned, from watching how Baron runs ET, that limited censorship is NECESSARY in order to enable discussions of use and value to traders.
Sponsor Bashing
- Thread starter Bitstream
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You must be visiting another forum on a different planet.
I've seen many sponsors, including one particular thread you participated heavily in...
The sponsor was on the receiving end of personal attacks, abusive language, name calling, racist remarks et cetera all nicely said among comments where others had legitimate questions about the sponsor's credibility.
What amazes me is the denial by so many traders that these types of comments either never occurred or was just having some fun so please ignore my comments long after the fact.
If you (bitstream) didn't see those comments in the Franz thread you participated in...that's one thing.
However, I'm going to go out on the limb and state that you did see those comments.
In my opinion, anyone that makes racist remarks, personal attacks that has nothing to do with trading and anything else along that line should recieve an automatic ban.
No discussion, no warnings...just banned and if the thread is too long to edit...
Delete the entire thread to prevent any possible litigation by some bored lawyer trying to get his law firm in Barron's or Wall Street journal via an obvious paper trail in some of these threads.
Baron needs to be very aggressive about such types of thread deletions.
Then maybe we will truly have some threads questioning sponsors creditibility by traders that had first hand experience with the sponsor so that the thread can stand on its own two feet and not be impotent by all that other crap that takes too long to edit.
Something else...not to understand a trader's need or a vendor/trader need to make more money is odd.
Geesh...you sound like someone that has never had two jobs at the same time or never owned two businesses at the same time.
Someone please tell Michael Jordan to dump all those businesses he has on the side (commercials, restaurants, part owner in a tennis club, part owner in a hair salon, part owner of a basketball team, played minor league baseball et cetera)...
He's made millions from basketball...he doesn't need that crap.
In my opinion...that's how you truly compound and exploit what ever it is that your doing.
Where does it say you can only compound your money via one way only???
Now...back to the issue of Sponsor Bashing.
Bashing via racist remarks, personal attacks, name calling et cetera is wrong no matter how much you try to cover it up with good comments by those that have first hand experience with the sponsor.
Such unprofessional comments MUST BE CENSOR or else ET may find itself in court defending members that shouldn't be defended.
Have you guys forgot the recent threads in feedback by traders complaining about why their personal attack comments got deleted while another traders racist comments was allowed to stay???
This is sensitive stuff, things at one point got way out of hand and just because someone becomes a sponsor doesn't make it excusable behaviour and prompts more feedback threads.
Also, those that didn't make such type of comments and pretend it didn't happen...
Are just as guilty and all of these traders take away the quality comments by other members along with helping ET become an eyesore on some trading days.
Here's my suggestion...
EliteTrader.com should split itself.
One side is for members that paid to be members, their real names are shown along with their IP address along with sending Baron a signed letter stating he is not responsible for their comments.
These traders will not see any sponsors ads nor are sponsors allowed on that side of town sort'uv speak.
However, these traders are allowed to bash sponsors via racist remarks, personal attacks, name calling, abusive language et cetera.
Lawyers and regulatory authorities are highly encourage to join this side of town.
(Baron keeps all other info private like home phone numbers, home address, social security number until he recieves a court order to cough up the info)
Those that decide to participate on the other side of town via not paying to be a member...
Must not post racist remarks, personal attacks, name calling, abusive language nor pretend such doesn't occur...
If they do...they are BANNED.
The above seems fair to me.
Think about it...what will make the front page news...
* Lawyer suing Baron about deflamatory or racist remarks by his ET members.
* Lawyer represents trader that lost a few thousand dollars after being scammed by some sponsor.
I bet one of the above Baron cannot afford if such happens and the media will have a field day with one of the above if such occurred (guess which one I'm talking about).
Once again...I don't have a problem with legitimate questions about a sponsors credibility.
I just have a problem with that other stuff and a problem with those that pretend it doesn't happen.
Mark
Quote from NihabaAshi:
Someone please tell Michael Jordan to dump all those businesses he has on the side (commercials, restaurants, part owner in a tennis club, part owner in a hair salon, part owner of a basketball team, played minor league baseball et cetera)...
He's made millions from basketball...he doesn't need that crap.
If you have the twisted intellect to think that your above scenario parallels a successful stock trader selling his system, you are terribly, terribly misguided. Any trader who is really successful would be much better suited by piling on his great trades rather than "selling his system", and this is more obvious than a 3 dollar bill. Your flawed logic throws your entire text into question.
I remember traders like Tony Oz whom shown their brokerage statements and PnL blotters without being asked...
They are successful traders and successful vendors.
They are excellent examples of compounding and exploiting their talents or expertise.
Just like Muhammad Ali whom is selling (sold) the rights to his name and fame for +50 million dollars to CKX Inc (same folks that own the rights to Elvis Presley's name).
(Info from an Securities Exchange Commission filing weeks prior to it hitting (pun intended) the regular media)
Why does he need another +50 million dollars when he had already made +50 million during his boxing earnings all by itself.
When he's made another +20 million via endorsements.
When he's made another +7 million from real estate investments.
When he's made another +5 million from different types of business ventures.
That's the intellect...not twisted.
Just examples of very successful professionals trying to compound their earnings every possible way they can think about.
Ali does own a few barbecue restaurants, rights to documentaries about him, auto dealership, health club et cetera.
Another excellent example of why these milliion dollar professionals aren't just sitting at home profiting via one way only.
They are business men driven to make more money.
If you can't see that...you shouldn't be involved in trading in the first place.
Its that simple and go tell these individuals to stop making all that residual income and just play basketball, just play hockey, just box, just play football, just be a floor trader or just be a retail trader...
You don't need to be involved in any other businesses.
Traders that get involved in others aspects of the markets or has other sources of income...
Is doing it for one reason only...
More money and they are compounding and exploiting their expertise or knowledge because its a choice.
Of course there are some bad apples out their in the basket...just like there are in any other profession.
Yet that doesn't make traders any different than any other business sector.
If you have the time, energy and knowledge to make income from additional sources...
As Nike saids....
Just Do It
P.S. I'm an ex-athlete that competed on the international level and is the reason why I enjoy using the athlete/trader analogies.
Mark
Are you suggesting that you are now questioning the merits of my other comments about my disgust in those that use racist remarks, personal attacks, abusive language, name calling as an appropriate way to bash ET sponsors???
Please clarify and I chose to disagree.
What I've stated are undeniable facts about what's occurring here at ET and Baron comments about attorneys support those facts along with support via a few screen image captures of such type of inappropriate ET sponsor bashing comments.
However, its your choice to look down upon my other comments via questioning their merits just because you don't agree with my athlete/trader analogies.
Mark
Mark, I agree that racist remarks and personal attacks have no place in a discussion of a trading system or trading business.
However, if you delete every thread as soon as someone posts a toxic message you lose the good posts that point out the real problems with the vendors system or business.
If I was a vendor and the thread was taking a turn I did not want it to take I can register as a new user, post a few toxic messages, and know that the entire thread would be removed.
Moderators should remove toxic posts, but never remove the entire thread. In most cases the toxic posts were/are extremely easy to identify.
Good Trading!
Quote from NihabaAshi:
Someone please tell Michael Jordan to dump all those businesses he has on the side (commercials, restaurants, part owner in a tennis club, part owner in a hair salon, part owner of a basketball team, played minor league baseball et cetera)...
He's made millions from basketball...he doesn't need that crap.
Mark
Makes me wander how often Michael Jordan calls his restaurant to give some instructions during play off match? Does he wear an Earpiece? lap top on a bench?
I heard Dennis Rodman once fired a few of his employees during a Bulls/Sonics halftime break.
Seriously though...I remember (reported in one of the south suburbs newspaper) Jordan in his first few years in the NBA giving a basketball clinic and he was financially compensated for such teaching.
Did he do it for the money or did he do it because of his love of the game and wanted to give back something to the local Chicago kids???
What are the odds a few of those kids succeeded and made it to the NBA, made it to college level basketball or became first stringers on their high school basketball team???
Mark
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