Spiritual Aspects of Trading

[martys]

Quote from HoundDogOne:

You comment is really about FAITH...
Which, by definition, means "belief that does not rest on logical proof".

Religions are not meant to be "provable"...
And reward only those that have FAITH and persevere for many years.

Also...
At the core of all religions is TOTAL SUBMISSION...
Either to God or a rigid belief system.

So if one is not interested in building Faith...
And Total Submission to something Greater...
Then one cannot benefit...
Because there is no easy road to personal and spiritual growth.

Rigid belief system is used as a spring board... Total submission is used to touch the heart so the conceptual entanglements would fall apart (at least for short span of time). Liberation is when you see these as a "mere" tools to inspire recognition of the nature of cognition and hence nature of things. If you take everything literally, one would make the path more difficult than it is (just adding even more conceptual entanglements).

Get naked man!

Note to myself: get practical (so I can practice more).

 

[wilburbear]

Quote from HoundDogOne:

Most religions include "spiritual disciplines" that result in a person living "in the moment"...
And not worrying about yesterday and tomorrow.

Whether it's Buddhist maturity that creates stability by neutralizing desire and greed...
Or Christian maturity that "lets go" because "God is in control"...
Or Islamic maturity that gives you the power to saw a man's head off with a simple knife...

The end result can be the same "in the moment" focus...
Where you ignore that winning or losing trade that happened 10 minutes ago...
And just grind out decision after decision unaffected by events.

The worlds greatest athlete is arguably Tiger Woods...
Largely because he has mastered playing golf "in the moment" better than any other player.

The Islamic thing was a bit of a surprise..............

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from algorythm:

As a long-time student of world religions, I wondered if there was any interest in opening up a discussion of religious/spiritual aspects of trading.

Most people have a belief system of one kind or another that they buy into and practice.

On the surface, trading is a purely material activity, but as Mark Twain wrote "any so-called material thing that you want is merely a symbol: you want it not for itself, but because it will content your spirit for the moment."

So what, as traders, is it that we're really looking for? Is it a test of ourselves against others? Only a game that we play to while away the hours? Is there any way to structure trading or an approach to trading that is more in line with your belief structures? How have traders in the community done this?

In the hedge fund industry, I ran into a lot of Ann Rynd'ers who were essentially objectivists who bought wholeheartedly into the philosophy that -- "individuals rationally and circumspectly seeking their own long-term happiness hold the world on their shoulders." Greed is good and so on. How many of you are on that particular bus? How does that feel?

I open up the question because it seems to me it might be useful to get an overview of not only how everyone trades and what they are trading, but how they feel about the trading they are doing, and what the philosophies are that drive that.

I personally am a Buddhist and I've found that texts from the Buddhist tradition and Taoist tradition are useful in helping me to see beyond what it is I'm doing on a day to day basis to something that is more of a "path of life," as opposed to a daily grind with only short term goals.

Many go fishing all their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after -- so what is it we're all here fishing for?

Thanks for your input.

religions are based on faith and hope and an inability to deal with reality. not good traits for traders to have.

 

[HoundDogOne]

Quote from martys:

Get naked man!

I like that. I only post on ET when naked anyway.

Spiritual growth should allow one to cast most inhibitions aside.

It's counterintuitive...
And impossible to understand unless one has gone down that Hard Road...
But through Submission one achieves Liberation.
Both Christianity and Buddhism offer Liberation from this world... but through entirely different methodologies.

 

[martys]

Quote from vhehn:

religions are based on faith and hope and an inability to deal with reality. not good traits for traders to have.

Vhehn,

We have never ever dealed with reality... ever. We always fixate upon our own conceptual imputations. If you have already see beyond the mess, recognize beyond the mess is same nature with the mess and therefore there is no need to strive... all the power to you.

Otherwise if you think you are dealing with reality, good luck with your journey. Religious beliefs/practice are tools man... they call them skillful means... not reality either.
Everybody think they know what a religion is all about seeing crazy guys bowing to some statues... worse they practice themselves like that... they think they are in some kind of profitable business transaction... they are not... they are wasting their time unless they know what the fuck they are doing. It took me a few years of studies to make some sense and I am far from seeing how deep this shit is. Preconceived ideas are costly... very costly...

Best regards.

 

[Free Thinker]

Quote from martys:

Vhehn,

We have never ever dealed with reality... ever. We always fixate upon our own conceptual imputations. If you have already see beyond the mess, recognize beyond the mess is same nature with the mess and therefore there is no need to strive... all the power to you.

Otherwise if you think you are dealing with reality, good luck with your journey. Religious beliefs/practice are tools man... they call them skillful means... not reality either.
Everybody think they know what a religion is all about seeing crazy guys bowing to some statues... worse they practice themselves like that... they think they are in some kind of profitable business transaction... they are not... they are wasting their time unless they know what the fuck they are doing. It took me a few years of studies to make some sense and I am far from seeing how deep this shit is. Preconceived ideas are costly... very costly...

Best regards.

the reality is that there is no evidence of anything supernatural. the reality also is that people who talk gibberish to some imaginary deity in the sky who never answers back are not dealing with reality. sorry thats just the way it is. deal with it.

 

[martys]

Quote from vhehn:

the reality is that there is no evidence of anything supernatural. the reality also is that people who talk gibberish to some imaginary deity in the sky who never answers back are not dealing with reality. sorry thats just the way it is. deal with it.

There is a meditation exercise to see so-called "pure vision" or your imaginary deity as illusory... Yes ILLUSORY. The pure vision is a tool to be discarded at certain stage of development.... The entire path is all fucking engineered and tuned. If one hasn't gone thru the entire process, yes he is a cult member. It will not work for everybody but thinking it will not work at all is only your reality.

 

[ByLoSellHi]

This may sound odd, but I like trading and investing because it is so amoral.

I am a very ethical and moral person, and I hate to see the things in the world that are happening today - things that I can not change; disgusting, violent and nasty things that disturb me - a continuum of the past (some things never will change).

So I take comfort in looking away and ignoring these things, and focusing on the markets, where the sole object is to make money; and though even the rules may not be fairly enforced, and though information may not be fairly disseminated, there is still a chance to profit for those quick of mind and on the trigger.

The market knows only the color of ticks, up or down, and has no hatred of color, race, nationality, religion or creed.

I love that fact; that the market only knows up ticks and down ticks, is amoral - it lets me escape from the immoral world where grave wrongs are perpetrated every millionth of each second, and over which I have no control.

 

[foible]

Quote from StockJock:

I asked myself a question not too long ago,"Is there a nonchristian way of trading?

Or you could even say immoral way of trading.

Typical Christian arrogance.

And typical Christian ignorance.


Matt 19:21Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

22When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23Then Jesus said to his disciples, "I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."


Let's not forget:

(Acts 2:44-45) All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.



The pursuit of riches through trading is vehemently anti-Christian. When did Jesus get really angry and get out a whip and start beating people? It wasn't when he met thieves or murderers, it was to beat the money changers. Learn about your own superstitions before spouting.


And the whole idea that Christianity has a monopoly on morality is plain stupid.

 

[Adobian]

Quote from martys:

squad,

Buddhist believes everybody (including the little ants who wants happiness) is equal in nature (nature of mind). It is said in the scripture, your nature did not become better when you become a Buddha. Preconceived view can be a trap.

Why are you trapping yourself in the preconceived views written in the scripture of Buddhism ?