Spiralling Outta Control... Democrats Seek Millionaire Tax Surcharge

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from BSAM:
What year did we lose control?

The old people think it's theft.

The young people don't know any better. (But, they can operate an iPod and a smartphone. And after all, what else really matters, right?:eek: )

How much longer till we just turn over all our assets to the government and then they will pass back to us what they deem (by some bureaucratic equation) to be fair?

Sad.

And you all know, or should know what it's going to take to retake our liberties.

Young people don’t know any better because we have very little to lose. Old people think its theft and then turn around and collect their social security, their medicare, pensions, live in their homes with inflated values that young people will probably never be able to afford.

I believe we lost control when Company A decided it was better for the bottom line if they laid off average Joe and shipped his job to China. I believe that outsourcing (and insourcing) which results in our massive trade deficit, is the real culprit here. In the end, it is bad for everybody.

 

[Sandybestdog]

Quote from rew:
I don't know about Virginia but I know that Maryland imposed some sort of "millionaire tax". So of course the rich people moved out and tax revenues from millionaires declined.

Remember that the federal income tax itself was originally touted as a "millionaire tax". Very few people had to pay it at first.

Are you sure you are telling the whole story here?

“The Sun, the Post and the conservative-financed Marylandreporter.com all noted that the number of Maryland millionaires dropped by 30% since the tax was imposed.”

Yet compared to the national drop in millionaires from 9.2 to 6.7 million millionaires (a 27% drop), it seems the tax had a very negligible effect.
<img src="http://www.blogcdn.com/www.luxist.com/media/2010/03/chart.jpg"</img>

You don’t think that perhaps the stock market and real estate crashing and an overall economic slowdown had anything to do with the drop in millionaires?

That’s OK. Using half the stats to promote typical Republican fear mongering is nothing new around here or on the national scene.

By the way, I live in Maryland. Montgomery county in fact, which is pretty much the richest of the richest.

 

[MohdSalleh]

France's millionaire tax causes 1 millionaire on the average to leave france every day

 

[MKTrader]

Quote from Sandybestdog:

Are you sure you are telling the whole story here?

“The Sun, the Post and the conservative-financed Marylandreporter.com all noted that the number of Maryland millionaires dropped by 30% since the tax was imposed.”

Yet compared to the national drop in millionaires from 9.2 to 6.7 million millionaires (a 27% drop), it seems the tax had a very negligible effect.
<img src="http://www.blogcdn.com/www.luxist.com/media/2010/03/chart.jpg"</img>

You don’t think that perhaps the stock market and real estate crashing and an overall economic slowdown had anything to do with the drop in millionaires?

That’s OK. Using half the stats to promote typical Republican fear mongering is nothing new around here or on the national scene.

By the way, I live in Maryland. Montgomery county in fact, which is pretty much the richest of the richest.

And using the politics of envy and completely fallacious/dishonest stats is nothing new for the Obamunists. Case in point: saving/creating jobs in congressional districts that don't exist, totally bogus accounting in "revenue neutral" health care projections, etc. But I suppose it's good enough for brainless freeloaders and unionized "public servants" who really think we can create an infinite number of wealth-transfer programs by taxing the "rich"/productive to death.

 

[SomeYoungGuy]

Quote from zboy2854A:

Yes, but it depends on what you're investing in, and whether the rate of return on whatever investment you choose is greater than the rate of inflation. As I mentioned previously, if you were invested in the broad stock market from 1965-1982, in nominal terms you made no money at the end of that period (since the markets ended where they started), but in real terms you lost a ton of money due to inflation. The same has happened to those broadly invested in stocks from 2000-now, which have gone nowhere in nominal terms, but lost a lot of money in inflation adjusted terms.

And as previously described, inflation punishes lenders and creditors, so the more inflation there is, the less incentive there is to lend, or it compels lenders to only lend at very high rates of interest to protect themselves.

It is true that you definitely want to invest your money in something other than fiat currency to beat inflation, but the trick is always figuring out which investments will beat inflation at which times. As has been pointed out before, there have been inflationary periods during which gold, oil and stocks have in fact considerably underperformed relative to inflation. That is the trick for us as investors, to accurately identify what type of inflationary environment we're in and position ourselves accordingly in the correct asset classes, which vary depending on the scope and shape of the inflationary environment.



Some naively put it into stocks, which got them killed. Some who were smart went into commodities and PM's, and did well. Again, it all depends on what kind of inflationary and economic environment it is. Which is where the trick lies to successfully navigating it as an investor.

I think I'm getting it now; the light is coming on. The goal of the investor has obviously always been to put their money into the highest return investment. But when inflation is present, it amplifies this effect and puts pressure on the consumer to spend on things they need now and in the short term instead of investing for the long haul.

So if inflation hurts the net saver/investor, then it must help net debtor.

When we are convinced we are staring down the barrel of inflation, we will do well to put ourselves in debt. If dollars are going to be worth less (or worthless), 'tis better to spend them today and pay them back tomorrow.

I'm going to go spend some money!

 

[zboy2854A]

Quote from SomeYoungGuy:

I think I'm getting it now; the light is coming on. The goal of the investor has obviously always been to put their money into the highest return investment. But when inflation is present, it amplifies this effect and puts pressure on the consumer to spend on things they need now and in the short term instead of investing for the long haul.

So if inflation hurts the net saver/investor, then it must help net debtor.

When we are convinced we are staring down the barrel of inflation, we will do well to put ourselves in debt. If dollars are going to be worth less (or worthless), 'tis better to spend them today and pay them back tomorrow.

I'm going to go spend some money!

Exactly. And the reverse is true during periods of deflation, where borrowers are punished, which I believe we will see over the next couple years. But at some point when massive inflation is sparked (which is an inevitability given the global government borrowing and spending being attempted), cash will be like the hot potato, no one will want to be holding it, and everyone will be seeking to spend or get rid of it as fast as they can.

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from SomeYoungGuy:


So if inflation hurts the net saver/investor, then it must help net debtor.

When we are convinced we are staring down the barrel of inflation, we will do well to put ourselves in debt. If dollars are going to be worth less (or worthless), 'tis better to spend them today and pay them back tomorrow.

I'm going to go spend some money!

That's exactly right.

Unfortunately, when there is no investing, there is no wealth creation and we spiral into poverty.

Delightful, isn't it?

 

[Angrycat]

Quote from zboy2854A:

Exactly. And the reverse is true during periods of deflation, where borrowers are punished, which I believe we will see over the next couple years. But at some point when massive inflation is sparked (which is an inevitability given the global government borrowing and spending being attempted), cash will be like the hot potato, no one will want to be holding it, and everyone will be seeking to spend or get rid of it as fast as they can.

Deflation also punishes investors. Rates of return decline during periods of deflation.

This whole inflation/deflation BS is why we shouldn't have our currency centrally planned anymore than we should have our industrial production centrally planned.

I'm sure it's not news to most people here that since the Federal Reserve's inception, the dollar has lost 95% of its value against gold!

 

[IanMacQuaide]

Quote from zboy2854A:

Exactly. And the reverse is true during periods of deflation, where borrowers are punished, which I believe we will see over the next couple years. But at some point when massive inflation is sparked (which is an inevitability given the global government borrowing and spending being attempted), cash will be like the hot potato, no one will want to be holding it, and everyone will be seeking to spend or get rid of it as fast as they can.

zboy, when you say "get rid of it" referring to cash, does that mean buying CD's and Muni Bonds? (ya'll don't have to point out my economic ignorance, I'm well aware of it )

 

[Scataphagos]

Quote from Angrycat:

Deflation also punishes investors. Rates of return decline during periods of deflation.

I'm sure it's not news to most people here that since the Federal Reserve's inception, the dollar has lost 95% of its value against gold!

A bit more to the story....

Sure, "deflation punishes investors" as asset prices decline. BUT it rewards savers.. as the buying power of their money increases. (Personally, I think that's a good thing. What would be wrong with assets/prices declining during deflation so that someone who formerly could not afford a house or a car, now could? And as for investors, what's wrong with their having the opportunity to buy real, productive assets on the cheap?)

In the big picture, deflation is the great healer and rejuvinator. Inflation is the boogie man... Destroyer of Worlds!

Governments, of course, never tell this story the way it really is. They HATE deflation, as it's a big obstacle to getting re-elected. But they LOVE inflation.. as it greases the wheels for spending and their political careers..... devastation it brings notwithstanding.