Spike Trade.com

[ironchef]

Yeah indeed, don't get me wrong, the book is very useful for starting out and understanding the concepts but I always have strong reservations with many of these type of books. I wouldn't say it's deliberately misleading but the book is called "Trading for a living". The odds of becoming successful are not stated enough and the gains are too exaggerated . Even if you quit your job and have a 100k trading account, you are going to struggle to make 20k in 2 years for the average trader. If one had a job with a salary of say $70k pa, this soon puts a damp rag over getting into trading. In my view authors have a social responsibility to keep it realistic

All these authors lead the reader into believing they are on a path to riches. They downplay the negative aspect a LOT and put a veneer of simplicity around the potential positive side. For example , no author should ever talk in $$$ amounts, only %age gains. Dr elder examples are up to $500k position sizes which doesn't get stated. This is it unrealistic for the average reader. Also he favours the MACD approach but this is notoriously misleading at times, yet the books are constantly, filled with cherry picked charts . There is no study on intensive back testing, failure rates of traders /indicators and so on.

Also the main gripe I have with these authors is that given I have done many different things in my career and it's the one discipline I see whereby no one ever seems to prove their ability. This is a serious problem especially simplicity of getting a trading account audited, However they just talk about it and readers are suppose to take in on faith alone .

How much faith would you have in a book on orthopedic surgery if the author has at no point proven he held a medical licence ar even performed did an operation?

Perhaps a harsh review buy it's wise to be somewhat cynical

Most people who sell books, trading courses or charge for mentoring are not good traders. Some even admitted it. But that doesn't mean they don't add value. We can still benefit from reading books, or attend a classes or paying for mentorship, just don't expect a miracle.

 

[drcruz]

Me neither, I don't trade his indicators, I now use price charts without any indicators thanks to some coaching from @MrScalper.

For me the chapters on trading psychology were helpful because they steered me away from the crowd, got off the beaten path, away from the methods he preached.

I'm going from memory but I liked how Elder said, "don't have an opinion on the future of market direction" and "try to learn tell what direction the market is currently going". Having a chart with no indicators sounds like that. I also liked, minimizing market exposure to 1% to 2% of your account was something he talked about as well (a light came on here, especially after blowing up a few accounts over the decades)

What @Captain Caveman said makes sense, though I never thought Elder's books would ever let me quit my job tomorrow (didn't judge the book by the cover). I did hear it was a book worth reading, so I did and I enjoyed it. It did not tempt me to join spike trading, but I still liked the book

 

[Tonko]

yes I was on it, its very poor. The group consistently underperform the S&P and their gold star traders barely out perform it. You ask a question and you get told to buy another course or listen to a paid webinar. Website is prehistoric and their online tools are like an 80's video game

The only positive thing is that they are an honest bunch and in some ways its vital to see how the reality for most traders.

I thought Alex Elder was a guru after reading his books but I realised that he is just living off hype like all the other ones and their main income is not from trading
To be frank most of these well known traders are not a smart bunch in the traditional IQ sense, it's just that they learned a craft over years and become good marketing themselves. It irritates me that they invent some new system and give you a long story how they suddenly became enlightened like Moses getting ten commandments from the God himself

For example Alex Elder Impulse system : Quote "I woke up in the middle of the night in a faraway hotel and sat up bolt upright in bed!"

Its just MACD and EMA for trend , nothing more! and that just boils down to a pile of MA. If you want to understand the New Highs - New Lows index (lets ignore volume by the way ), you buy the book ,.... or just read the title and you have it pretty much figured out.

The devil is in the detail and often right information is presented in a misleading way e.g "I made $3,8000 on a day trade", until you start looking closely at the the amount of shares they bought, $500,000 capital outlay! (0.76%)

Trying to be positive: like all of these sites, it could be worth signing up for a month or two go through old picks and see what happend, you might learn something.

The say I see proper verified and audited trading accounts by a national company is the day I will sign up to another service.

 

[Tonko]

i see this is an old thread but thanks for this. I am just reading the book and was considering the group. Would you be so kind to at least hint at what the main reason is they perform so poorly?

 

[drcruz]

i see this is an old thread but thanks for this. I am just reading the book and was considering the group. Would you be so kind to at least hint at what the main reason is they perform so poorly?

I still liked the book. I would imagine if you find the interviews of Peter Brandt in Chat with Traders you'll probably get a hint on why the group may not be successful.

Peter says his winrate is only 40%, he makes most of his money from 5% of his trades, he audited 40% annualized returns. Can a normal person's psyche handle a 40% winrate making most of their money on 5% of their trades? I don't know

 

[Tonko]

I still liked the book. I would imagine if you find the interviews of Peter Brandt in Chat with Traders you'll probably get a hint on why the group may not be successful.

Peter says his winrate is only 40%, he makes most of his money from 5% of his trades, he audited 40% annualized returns. Can a normal person's psyche handle a 40% winrate making most of their money on 5% of their trades? I don't know

Thank you, I am a bit confused since I am just starting out and am not confident with terminology. Isn’t a win rate a % of winning trades out of all trades? So 5% in his case? Or are you saying that he is exhausting same stocks over and over?

 

[drcruz]

Thank you, I am a bit confused since I am just starting out and am not confident with terminology. Isn’t a win rate a % of winning trades out of all trades? So 5% in his case? Or are you saying that he is exhausting same stocks over and over?

Well a plus 1% is a win, but with traditional trend trading one BIG move can make most of your profits for the year. Find the Ed Seykota's "Wipesaw" song on YouTube