SpecialistMan - by John Bogle

WinSum · Oct 11, 2003

Good idea, maybe someone should start a thread that rates specialist like:

NOK = Excellent
FS = Stay Away

ET members can contribute to the list as we go along.

Quote from Tea:

There should be a rating system for specialists done by institutional or active traders.

A quarterly or semi-annual rating.

Imagine a CEO being asked at a shareholder meeting or in an interview, why his company uses the specialist with the worst shareholder rating in his industry sector.

Tea · Oct 11, 2003

Quote from WinSum:

Good idea, maybe someone should start a thread that rates specialist like:

NOK = Excellent
FS = Stay Away

ET members can contribute to the list as we go along.

Thats a start, but to carry any weight it would be better for a rating to be done by an association or magazine.

C Robinson · Oct 11, 2003

Quote from WinSum:

Good idea, maybe someone should start a thread that rates specialist like:

NOK = Excellent
FS = Stay Away

ET members can contribute to the list as we go along.

or maybe:

NOK= 5 Stars

FRE= 3 1/2 Handcuffs (for the not so good specialist)

just a thought.....

NYSE Trader · Oct 11, 2003

Just started a new thread called "Specialist Ratings" for input on our experience with different stocks/specialists.

Don Bright · Oct 11, 2003

Quote from MrDinky:

Rhetorical question: Wasn't a specialist system already in place? If it didn't help then...

Don, you make it sound like the specialist provides some kind of casualty insurance. Let me ask you, is there some kind of hard and fast rule that requires a specialist to buy when the market's plummeting? If there is, then please correct me, but to my knowledge there is none and that's where the specialist as "buyer of last resort" argument falls apart.

More along the line of "assurance" rather than "insurance"...the Specialist will "ST" the stock from trading, balance out the orders, participate himself Only on the "bad side" if need be. Then reopen the stock. That's how we did it in options, and the Specialists at our Firm back this up (yeah, I know, what else are they supposed to say)...but they have no reason to BS us now, they're Bright Traders, not NYSE Specialists.

Don

Don

bent_prop · Oct 11, 2003

Quote from Tea:

that's a start, but to carry any weight it would be better for a rating to be done by an association or magazine.

Credibility is the goal; so you have to be concerned about corruptibility. An association; well maybe, A Magazine; you got to be kidding! (no offence Tea)

I have never subscribed to NYSE Open book. Does it help to predict direction?

Don Bright · Oct 11, 2003

Interesting, and I encourage our traders to find 1 or two stocks to trade day in and day out....and if and when the Specialist Firm or post is changed, then give them some time, if they don't act the way you're hoping, find another stock. This fits right into the scenerio of having others play poker in your house, vs. trading new stocks everyday and having to take a month to figure out the Specialist. Akin to going to a new person's home to play poker vs. bringing them to yours.

Don

wercurna · Oct 11, 2003

Quote from Don Bright:

More along the line of "assurance" rather than "insurance"...the Specialist will "ST" the stock from trading, balance out the orders, participate himself Only on the "bad side" if need be. Then reopen the stock. That's how we did it in options, and the Specialists at our Firm back this up (yeah, I know, what else are they supposed to say)...but they have no reason to BS us now, they're Bright Traders, not NYSE Specialists.

Don

Don

I have to agree with Don, last week the specialist halted SPG stock and reopened it only 10 cents above where it closed, if the mechanism of halting and then reopening was not possible who knows what would have happend with SPG.

darkhorse · Oct 12, 2003

question: if the main purpose of the specialist is to provide crash insurance against catastrophic meltdown in a stock, doesn't that suggest that his profits during normal times represent the premium that investors and traders are paying for that insurance?

if so, why not just cut the specialists out and go for the real thing by creating an insurance product for traders? AIG or some other institution could create a "crash insurance" offering- for X premium you are protected against a single day adverse move of more than X percent in stock XYZ for up to the amount of X losses, etc. etc..

figuring out the terms and conditions would be complicated, but not much different from insuring against fires, earthquakes, political risk, etc. etc.

at least then you would know what you were paying for, and you would have the details of your policy in writing. and competition among insurance companies, along with transparency of offerings, would reduce the total amount of premium that "specialistman" currently sucks out of the market.

BlueHorseshoe · Oct 12, 2003

Quote from darkhorse:

if so, why not just cut the specialists out and go for the real thing by creating an insurance product for traders? AIG or some other institution could create a "crash insurance" offering- for X premium you are protected against a single day adverse move of more than X percent in stock XYZ for up to the amount of X losses, etc. etc..

figuring out the terms and conditions would be complicated, but not much different from insuring against fires, earthquakes, political risk, etc. etc.

Insurance products already exist. In the realm of financial products they are called OPTIONS.