specialist tricks this week

Boomer · Feb 18, 2003

i am putting together nysetraders post about the 5000 vs. the 1000 share trades. does the specialist jerk around the little guy, or the big guy? i think i have this mixed up.

dcunited · Feb 18, 2003

a trader could expect to get better treatment with a 5k order than a 1k, as the 5k order represents more liquidity. You wouldn't want to piss off someone who could provide you with substantially more order flow. (course I never go over 2000 so I'm no authority.)

shaq48 · Feb 18, 2003

Quote from DaveN:

I've heard some talk of a "liquidity quote" coming to the NYSE. Supposedly, these will include and large quotes from the crowd.

My understanding is that the quotes from the crowd are not in the specialists book. Presumably, many of them are holding those quotes rather than giving them to the specialist, so they can save a bit in the executions (I'm just speculating on this point, however.)

The crowd isn't giving quotes to the specialist...the reason they can keep the specialist "honest" is because the specialist doesn't know what size order they have and what price they are trying to attain. You have to remember the crowd is made up of mostly floor brokers just working orders for customers. The floor brokers main job is to get the order filled at the best price possible. I have been told that a broker may tell the specialist something along the lines of "I've got size to go" or " I'll be here till lunch" letting the specialist get a chance to get flat so he doesn't crush the specialist..remember they may need the specialist to help them on a order one day so they don't want to crush him. They realize that the specialist is the only person that has to take the otherside. The specialists also have certain levels of buying or selling they must meet so it looks like they are actually taking part in providing liqidity and keeping trading orderly.

dgabriel · Feb 18, 2003

Are they turning them?

OVERtheLINE · Feb 18, 2003

Quote from dcunited:

a trader could expect to get better treatment with a 5k order than a 1k, as the 5k order represents more liquidity. You wouldn't want to piss off someone who could provide you with substantially more order flow. (course I never go over 2000 so I'm no authority.)

dont let a scrub or 2 around here who pose as shooters fool you....the specialists will try to take your dough
no matter the size ........so every second be ready to battle

Swipe · Feb 19, 2003

Quote from Lobster:

nitro, I have often wondered why "ABOVE ALL, YOU GOTTA DO SIZE" is such an important statement to you. Have you ever explained that?

I understand that cost of hardware, software, your own time, commissions, etc. are lower on a percentage basis if you do size, but I don't think that's what you mean. Does it have anything to do with the "red carpet treatment" you were talking about?

Other than that, why would it matter if you trade with a little bit of your own money or a huge chunk of someone else's capital?

Or are you saying no-one with a net worth < $1M should even think about opening a trading account?

Please advise.

I also wonder why you say "ABOVE ALL, YOU GOTTA DO SIZE" when i logged into chat room it you were only trading 1 lots.

Swipe · Feb 19, 2003

Quote from OVERtheLINE:

dont let a scrub or 2 around here who pose as shooters fool you....the specialists will try to take your dough
no matter the size ........so every second be ready to battle

YOU GOT IT

We're grown adults fighting over money!

or at least some of us

NYSE Trader · Feb 20, 2003

Quote from OVERtheLINE:

dont let a scrub or 2 around here who pose as shooters fool you....the specialists will try to take your dough
no matter the size ........so every second be ready to battle

here's how it works: the specialist is out to make money for himself and/or his firm, but they are kept accountable by strict nyse rules and oversight of what constitutes a "fair and orderly market"...the main rule being they can facilitate but not initiate.

some specialists try to get away with as much as they can and others are more than fair...I used to trade two dow stocks and personally made up 1% of their daily volume by helping the specialists facilitate...I've been robbed more often by initiating (eg, buying into a bull run), but have been given many great fills by facilitating--especially when using size.

tfmoney · Feb 20, 2003

ryanmitcho · Mar 10, 2003

anyone else noticing that the specialists are taking longer to update their books?? if you traded FNM or FRE today you would know what i am talking about- definitely not updated every 10 sec- more like 30-40 seconds. they should really watch specialists more cause these assholes get away with some shady stuff everyday.