Specialist manipulation

Bitstream · Nov 5, 2006

Quote from Option Trader:

I sure hope to hear some feedback on this one.

yep, that's strobobot allright.

lilboy716 · Nov 5, 2006

just a wild guess: could that be... I cancelled my buy order b/c I can/hope to buy it at a lower price?

if you're good... you start flashing 5k bids... you'll drive me to pay up on my buy order. but then of course, some other guy wants to sell 50k and saw your 5k bids as a very attractive place to start to unload his 50k... its an endless game...

Quote from Scalper007:

What about those huge sizes that the specialist flashes and just when you wanna hit it, he removes it. So thats not the specialist? It's a program? I see this often in lvs and x...If the specialist is doing that, Isn't that manipulation?

Scalper007 · Nov 5, 2006

Quote from lilboy716:

just a wild guess: could that be... I cancelled my buy order b/c I can/hope to buy it at a lower price?

if you're good... you start flashing 5k bids... you'll drive me to pay up on my buy order. but then of course, some other guy wants to sell 50k and saw your 5k bids as a very attractive place to start to unload his 50k... its an endless game...

LOL.. Lilboy, I know it wasn't you because if it was, I would have NXed you to death.

Everytime I wanna hit that flashing size, it disappears and I think only the specialist has the luxury to do that. He shows the size, price moves up by a couple of pennies and its gone. Then it comes back in and price moves a little bit more and then its gone. This keeps happening until a pro realizes that this is a fake order and he/she puts in a huge REAL size against the flasher and the stock tanks....

Option Trader · Nov 5, 2006

How do they get away with this?

Bitstream · Nov 5, 2006

Quote from Option Trader:

How do they get away with this?

always have. dunno, but that's a good q.

Option Trader · Nov 5, 2006

Quote from Scalper007:

LOL.. Lilboy, I know it wasn't you because if it was, I would have NXed you to death. Everytime I wanna hit that flashing size, it disappears and I think only the specialist has the luxury to do that. He shows the size, price moves up by a couple of pennies and its gone. Then it comes back in and price moves a little bit more and then its gone. This keeps happening until a pro realizes that this is a fake order and he/she puts in a huge REAL size against the flasher and the stock tanks....

Obviously he wants to unload & at the highest price he can.

Option Trader · Nov 5, 2006

Quote from Bitstream:

always have. dunno, but that's a good q.

In cahoots with the SEC??

MadBulgarian · Nov 5, 2006

Quote from Scalper007:

What about those huge sizes that the specialist flashes and just when you wanna hit it, he removes it. So thats not the specialist? It's a program? I see this often in lvs and x...If the specialist is doing that, Isn't that manipulation?

No its not manipulation. Unless your trading with some chop shop that has you chasing around like a retard looking for market shorts or scalping for 5-10 cents then this should'nt effect your trading.

Option Trader · Nov 6, 2006

Nothing inherently wrong with looking for 5-10 cent profits.

fra10trader · Nov 6, 2006

Quote from Scalper007:

No way! Trading NYSE stocks is much harder and much more dangerous than Nasdaq for all I know. In nasdaq, you can get in and out easily without any interference. In Nyse you got the specialist spreading up and down all over the place; crossing the markets preventing you from executing on the ecns; and here's what happened to me in my effort to test hybrid stocks such as MA the past couple of days: I buy it at 84 and the stock is trading around 84 on nyse AND the ecn, and guess what..All of a sudden the pervert comes in with a bid of 83.60 and an ask of 83.63 crossing the ecns even though there are bids on the book...Thats an immediate 40 cent loss out of no where. This kind of nonsense never happens in nasdaq. Yes, stocks fall 40 cents in seconds, but it falls through all the bids. It doesn't just jump from 84 to 83.60 when there are bids!! Nyse is a BIG BIG mess. And maybe the hybrid isn't just what I thought it to be. Did anyone else see this nonsense in MA? I seem like the only one who sees this.... I mean if this is what hybrid is supposed to be then nyse traders are in for a big surprise.. I am beginning to wonder if the hybrid system's immediate fill has any value when the fills are just totally nasty.

Is there any advantage in finding opportunities to trade at these moments when the market is crossed? I understand it sucks to be in a trade during these situations but is there a benefit to knowing a stock is crossed and something is about to happen? I see alerts like this and it makes me wonder if its used to an advantage or a way of trading for some:
http://www.trade-ideas.com/SingleAlertType/MC/Market_crossed.html