Spain / Catalonia Referendum : 90% of the 2.26 million Catalans who voted on Sunday voted in favour

[AAAintheBeltway]

The silence of the EU commission on these events is deafening.

Ditch, WTF is going on there? This kind of came out of nowhere for us in the US. I have seen claims that Soros is backing the independence movement. Is that possible? I have seen other claims that he is backing various regional independence movements in order to weaken component EU states and make them more dependent upon the EU and lessen the threat of a breakup.

This seems crazy but these days, who knows? The obvious explanation is that Catalonia, like the northern Italian group, is tired of supporting a bunch of socialists.

The videos of rampaging police were shocking and severely damaged any moral authority the Spanish government had in this dispute. I suppose the next step will be for them to declare martial law and forcibly put down the independence movement.

 

[smallStops]

May be it is time you review everything you believed about Soros, asking yourself who and how these beliefs systems were formed.

 

[Ditch]

S

Ditch, WTF is going on there? This kind of came out of nowhere for us in the US. I have seen claims that Soros is backing the independence movement. Is that possible? I have seen other claims that he is backing various regional independence movements in order to weaken component EU states and make them more dependent upon the EU and lessen the threat of a breakup.

This seems crazy but these days, who knows? The obvious explanation is that Catalonia, like the northern Italian group, is tired of supporting a bunch of socialists.

The videos of rampaging police were shocking and severely damaged any moral authority the Spanish government had in this dispute. I suppose the next step will be for them to declare martial law and forcibly put down the independence movement.

Spain went through a terrible crisis due to the austerity measures imposed by the EU. Catalonia, being one the stronger regions in Spain, had to carry a relatively heavier part of that burden. Besides that there's a historical resentment between Catalonia and Madrid. This is comparable to Belgium where French-speaking Brussels looks down upon Dutch-speaking Flanders, which is the economic motor of Belgium. Needless to say Sunday's events and the absolute silence of the EU-commission are fuel on the fire.
Then there's Italy, that is still in a deep economic hole, due to the Euro, which is too strong for them and certain regions, that are in a state of chaos because of the flood of refugees. Hell, even the mafia is fighting gangs of refugees.
Like in all Eu-nations they have political parties that want to leave the EU, but they are being isolated by the traditional parties. I think changes are highest for Italy to be the first country to leave the euro and that will be the end of it.
All over Europe step by step EU-sceptics increase in size, like AFD in Germany, which is now the third largest party.
Last week in Holland a law was passed to abolish the counselling referendum, since a couple of referendums that have been held in the Netherlands did not show an outcome to the liking of the major parties.

The EU and it's cronies are reverting more and more to limit democratic rights and freedom, a couple of weeks ago a law in Holland was passed that allows screening of all internet traffic by the government, and literally beating down citizens USSR-style, but under the surface of resentment against the EU is big and growing. Germans still elected Merkel, but I expect that when the burden of refugees becomes financially unbearable, resulting in a collapse of Western-European welfare systems and many economists have made forecasts of that, anything is possible, meaning the political pendulum might swing to the extreme, opposite side.

 

[Ditch]

Ditch, WTF is going on there? This kind of came out of nowhere for us in the US. I have seen claims that Soros is backing the independence movement. Is that possible? I have seen other claims that he is backing various regional independence movements in order to weaken component EU states and make them more dependent upon the EU and lessen the threat of a breakup.

This seems crazy but these days, who knows? The obvious explanation is that Catalonia, like the northern Italian group, is tired of supporting a bunch of socialists.

The videos of rampaging police were shocking and severely damaged any moral authority the Spanish government had in this dispute. I suppose the next step will be for them to declare martial law and forcibly put down the independence movement.

Yesterday evening Catalonia declared they now have the right to establish a Republic on the basis of the referendum. If they do, that means full scale civil war.

https://twitter.com/x/status/914594607526240257

 

[raf_bcn]

The intention of the catalan parlamient is to declare the independence this week. I agree and support that decision, because is the only way that Europe, UE, takes us seriously.

Catalonia occupies just over 6.3% (32,114 sq km) of Spain’s territory, but its importance is not proportionate to its size.
Catalonia’s exports of €65.2bn represent more than one-quarter of the national total.
Is a €215.6bn (£191bn) economy, larger than most countries in the eurozone.
Catalonia also has lower unemployment and generally less income inequality than the rest of Spain.

Catalonia suffers a tax deficit with respect to the Spanish state of around 8% of GDP which amount to €16,000,000,000 of Catalan taxes that are every year paid to Madrid and not reinvested in Catalonia, this is impairing the possibilities for growth and development.
We have been asking for investments in infrastructure for many many years and the Spains goverment does nothing.

There are also important historical and cultural reasons why many Catalans do not feel Spanish. But We have tried for decades to feel integrated and recognized but we are only ridiculed and despised.

We now say Enough.


Milions of catalans are ready to break with Spain. And more after the brutal police repression occurred yesterday. The police that perpetrated that was not the Catalan Police but police from other regions that have been arriving to Barcelona from two weeks ago, Policia nacional and Guardia Civil.
Voters who wanted to participate in the Referendum were called, by the pro independence parties, to maintain a peaceful and non-aggressive attitude against the police forces. But the police brutality was disproportionate. We will remenber this for a long time.

If EU doens't act preserving and defensing the dignity of catalan people this could be the end of the EU as we know it now.You will see.
EU can not afford to lose this European region.
A great majority of the Catalan people are pro-UE.
But a lot of things are changing and we are ready to defend our rights. We can not allow more violence by the Spanish state.

All we want is freedom to decide our future and always in a peaceful and respectful way.

 

[Tsing Tao]

So what happens then? I get it that you guys declare independence. Then what?

Do you withhold all tax payments (which is what they really care about)? Is there an armed militia to defend against what will certainly be an attempt from Spain to occupy Catalan land? How do you draw the borders? So many questions.

 

[smallStops]

The intention of the catalan parlamient is to declare the independence this week. I agree and support that decision, because is the only way that Europe, UE, takes us seriously.

Catalonia occupies just over 6.3% (32,114 sq km) of Spain’s territory, but its importance is not proportionate to its size.
Catalonia’s exports of €65.2bn represent more than one-quarter of the national total.
Is a €215.6bn (£191bn) economy, larger than most countries in the eurozone.
Catalonia also has lower unemployment and generally less income inequality than the rest of Spain.

Catalonia suffers a tax deficit with respect to the Spanish state of around 8% of GDP which amount to €16,000,000,000 of Catalan taxes that are every year paid to Madrid and not reinvested in Catalonia, this is impairing the possibilities for growth and development.
We have been asking for investments in infrastructure for many many years and the Spains goverment does nothing.

There are also important historical and cultural reasons why many Catalans do not feel Spanish. But We have tried for decades to feel integrated and recognized but we are only ridiculed and despised.

We now say Enough.


Milions of catalans are ready to break with Spain. And more after the brutal police repression occurred yesterday. The police that perpetrated that was not the Catalan Police but police from other regions that have been arriving to Barcelona from two weeks ago, Policia nacional and Guardia Civil.
Voters who wanted to participate in the Referendum were called, by the pro independence parties, to maintain a peaceful and non-aggressive attitude against the police forces. But the police brutality was disproportionate. We will remenber this for a long time.

If EU doens't act preserving and defensing the dignity of catalan people this could be the end of the EU as we know it now.You will see.
EU can not afford to lose this European region.
A great majority of the Catalan people are pro-UE.
But a lot of things are changing and we are ready to defend our rights. We can not allow more violence by the Spanish state.

All we want is freedom to decide our future and always in a peaceful and respectful way.

Good luck to the Catalans after all, why should other people prevent you from being free to choose your path. At the end of the day, Catalans have not been mistreating people just to get rich.

 

[raf_bcn]

So what happens then? I get it that you guys declare independence. Then what?

Do you withhold all tax payments (which is what they really care about)? Is there an armed militia to defend against what will certainly be an attempt from Spain to occupy Catalan land? How do you draw the borders? So many questions.

The prime minister of Catalonia has asked today for international mediation.

The borders are well defined. Catalonia is a land with more than 1000 years of history.
We are civilized european citizens and all we want is freedom to decide.
We have the capacity to be a country like Denmark.

If Spain sends his army, I doubt it, they have no military capacity to invade Catalonia. Only 40.000 soldiers to control a population of 7.5 M
And the UE would automatically throw out Spain from UE because the states aren't allowed to use military forces again his population.

Of course there will be a moment to negotiate the conditions for the independence.
If Catalonia rejects that conditions Spain will not be able to pay his debts.
So at the end it will be amatter of dialogue. Catalans are demanding dialog with the Spains goverment from a long time ago.

This situation is the most important challenge for UE in the last decades.
It is an important moment for the U.E. and all will depend on his answer. For now, no answer from the UE commission but the EU parlamient will discuss the catalan referendum on Wednesday. We will see.

 

[Ditch]

The intention of the catalan parlamient is to declare the independence this week. I agree and support that decision, because is the only way that Europe, UE, takes us seriously.

Catalonia occupies just over 6.3% (32,114 sq km) of Spain’s territory, but its importance is not proportionate to its size.
Catalonia’s exports of €65.2bn represent more than one-quarter of the national total.
Is a €215.6bn (£191bn) economy, larger than most countries in the eurozone.
Catalonia also has lower unemployment and generally less income inequality than the rest of Spain.

Catalonia suffers a tax deficit with respect to the Spanish state of around 8% of GDP which amount to €16,000,000,000 of Catalan taxes that are every year paid to Madrid and not reinvested in Catalonia, this is impairing the possibilities for growth and development.
We have been asking for investments in infrastructure for many many years and the Spains goverment does nothing.

There are also important historical and cultural reasons why many Catalans do not feel Spanish. But We have tried for decades to feel integrated and recognized but we are only ridiculed and despised.

We now say Enough.


Milions of catalans are ready to break with Spain. And more after the brutal police repression occurred yesterday. The police that perpetrated that was not the Catalan Police but police from other regions that have been arriving to Barcelona from two weeks ago, Policia nacional and Guardia Civil.
Voters who wanted to participate in the Referendum were called, by the pro independence parties, to maintain a peaceful and non-aggressive attitude against the police forces. But the police brutality was disproportionate. We will remenber this for a long time.

If EU doens't act preserving and defensing the dignity of catalan people this could be the end of the EU as we know it now.You will see.
EU can not afford to lose this European region.
A great majority of the Catalan people are pro-UE.
But a lot of things are changing and we are ready to defend our rights. We can not allow more violence by the Spanish state.

All we want is freedom to decide our future and always in a peaceful and respectful way.

This will be a major testcase for the future of the EU. We'll see how far they're willing to go to suppress forces that go against "EU democratic values".

 

[Ditch]

The prime minister of Catalonia has asked today for international mediation.

The borders are well defined. Catalonia is a land with more than 1000 years of history.
We are civilized european citizens and all we want is freedom to decide.
We have the capacity to be a country like Denmark.

If Spain sends his army, I doubt it, they have no military capacity to invade Catalonia. Only 40.000 soldiers to control a population of 7.5 M
And the UE would automatically throw out Spain from UE because the states aren't allowed to use military forces again his population.

Of course there will be a moment to negotiate the conditions for the independence.
If Catalonia rejects that conditions Spain will not be able to pay his debts.
So at the end it will be amatter of dialogue. Catalans are demanding dialog with the Spains goverment from a long time ago.

This situation is the most important challenge for UE in the last decades.
It is an important moment for the U.E. and all will depend on his answer. For now, no answer from the UE commission but the EU parlamient will discuss the catalan referendum on Wednesday. We will see.

The EU parliament has no say in this at all. That's a staged muppet show.