Son of If You Can Draw a Straight Line . . .

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Quote from dbphoenix:

I hope that someone completed the exercise for last Friday, i.e., through the end of the day, since yesterday was virtually identical.
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I have screen shots of the day till 1100. I am going through them and thinking about every step. Soon I'll try to start posting them. We're still operation on the purely s/d lines here. I have found it to be the most amazing way to learn how price actually moves. No S/R lines, problems with double tops/bottoms etc. All there is just straight lines and the price waves flowing up and down. A trader can just learn to surf these waves and that would be almost the biggest hurdle removed. Later other aspects of price behaviour can easily be incorporated to fine tune and enhance profits. I am afraid if someone can't even go through just drawing a simple supply/demand line and then looking at the break to just pick one of two possible directions then, maybe this method isn't for that person. I highly think this is as simple as it's going to get and no simpler. It's the invisible line in the sand that's going to distinguish the price action trader from the indicator action trader.

It shouldn't even take more than a few weeks at most to get this simplest of simple thing about price in the head. Forget about those asking for 10,000 hours of relentless work. The work has been done for you here. All you have to do is to use it, and give yourself enough screen time to get comfortable with it. Those 10,000 hours might make one a master no doubt with the proper correction of errors of course, but there's a special advantage that a price action trader has that a pianist, a soccer, or a tennis player doesn't have. That advantage in my opinion if fully realized can shorten dramatically the number of hours to get better at trading as opposed to those other professions. You would ask what is that advantage? How could there be an advantage when trading is the hardest thing some say known to man? When over 95% of traders never make a dime? My simple answer would be that the answer has been given time and again by Db and others in this tread. It's so simple that you would think I am joking when I tell you what it is. But fundamentally it's the greatest advantage one can ever, ever hope to get in any endeavor where one's skill is matched against the skill of others.

Gringo
 
Quote from Gringo:

I have screen shots of the day till 1100. I am going through them and thinking about every step. Soon I'll try to start posting them. We're still operation on the purely s/d lines here. I have found it to be the most amazing way to learn how price actually moves. No S/R lines, problems with double tops/bottoms etc. All there is just straight lines and the price waves flowing up and down. A trader can just learn to surf these waves and that would be almost the biggest hurdle removed. Later other aspects of price behaviour can easily be incorporated to fine tune and enhance profits. I am afraid if someone can't even go through just drawing a simple supply/demand line and then looking at the break to just pick one of two possible directions then, maybe this method isn't for that person. I highly think this is as simple as it's going to get and no simpler. It's the invisible line in the sand that's going to distinguish the price action trader from the indicator action trader.

It shouldn't even take more than a few weeks at most to get this simplest of simple thing about price in the head. Forget about those asking for 10,000 hours of relentless work. The work has been done for you here. All you have to do is to use it, and give yourself enough screen time to get comfortable with it. Those 10,000 hours might make one a master no doubt with the proper correction of errors of course, but there's a special advantage that a price action trader has that a pianist, a soccer, or a tennis player doesn't have. That advantage in my opinion if fully realized can shorten dramatically the number of hours to get better at trading as opposed to those other professions. You would ask what is that advantage? How could there be an advantage when trading is the hardest thing some say known to man? When over 95% of traders never make a dime? My simple answer would be that the answer has been given time and again by Db and others in this tread. It's so simple that you would think I am joking when I tell you what it is. But fundamentally it's the greatest advantage one can ever, ever hope to get in any endeavor where one's skill is matched against the skill of others.

Gringo
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My biggest issue isn't the lines it's trying to decide between a retracement and a reversal because on friday the trend was up all day but using s/d lines there were 2 or 3 times when you could have gone short and I know db wouldn't have been short at all and also when the retracement of the last move moves more than 50% of the previous move!
 
Quote from Gringo:

That advantage in my opinion if fully realized can shorten dramatically the number of hours to get better at trading as opposed to those other professions. You would ask what is that advantage? How could there be an advantage when trading is the hardest thing some say known to man? When over 95% of traders never make a dime?
Gringo
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That the market plays with it's cards face up? Is this the advantage?
 
Quote from slugar:

My biggest issue isn't the lines it's trying to decide between a retracement and a reversal because on friday the trend was up all day but using s/d lines there were 2 or 3 times when you could have gone short and I know db wouldn't have been short at all and also when the retracement of the last move moves more than 50% of the previous move!
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Even if you pick a wrong direction you'll be out with 1.5 points or less. Keep doing it and eventually you'll get that large move that just keeps on going. Db, is remarkable with what he does and gives price room to maneuver but you can exit faster if there's fear involved. The whole point is to stick to your plan. It seem everyone's more worried about the 50% rule than the supply and demand lines. Try to re-focus your attention of what's being discussed. It's very similar to staying in the present while trading instead of thinking about the past. With the repeated mention in this thread to give less importance to the 50% rule and more to the lines at this time your progress will accelerate. Over time you'll re-introduce the 50% rule but first figure out how to use the supply and demand lines properly. It seem to be you're pretending to be following lines but when they are violated you are invoking the 50% rule to bring back the same confusion that you have always had. Resist this temptation, and let go. Just let go. Only line for now. Once you're comfortable like a robot seeing price and using supply/demand lines then start adding back the jingles.

Gringo
 
Quote from Gringo:

Even if you pick a wrong direction you'll be out with 1.5 points or less. Keep doing it and eventually you'll get that large move that just keeps on going. Db, is remarkable with what he does and gives price room to maneuver but you can exit faster if there's fear involved. The whole point is to stick to your plan. It seem everyone's more worried about the 50% rule than the supply and demand lines. Try to re-focus your attention of what's being discussed. It's very similar to staying in the present while trading instead of thinking about the past. With the repeated mention in this thread to give less importance to the 50% rule and more to the lines at this time your progress will accelerate. Over time you'll re-introduce the 50% rule but first figure out how to use the supply and demand lines properly. It seem to be you're pretending to be following lines but when they are violated you are invoking the 50% rule to bring back the same confusion that you have always had. Resist this temptation, and let go. Just let go. Only line for now. Once you're comfortable like a robot seeing price and using supply/demand lines then start adding back the jingles.

Gringo
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. Thanks gringo I will do my best I have a goal to be trading live in January so I need to focus
 
Quote from game:

That the market plays with it's cards face up? Is this the advantage?
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The advantage compared to golf, martial arts, wrestling, soccer, and all other competitive competitions is CHOICE. The choice to disengage when the opposition is playing well. No one else can do that. The tennis player cannot say I am taking a break and just abort a potentially losing game. This is an ultimate advantage. The martial artist can't just quit just before an arm lock is almost in place. Those guys when they lose they lose completely. But not a trader. You feel not up to the task, you exit. The market feels overwhelming, you exit. Eventually you'll get your perfect set up, where all the ducks line up, and you engage and stay in as long as necessary, and out again. What a wonderful game this is if one is aware of the ultimate advantage. Isn't it? This allows one to not spend 10,000 hours to figure out all kinds of variations and possibilities. What a person needs is a simple, profitable, tested, and repeatable plan that fits the trader's personality. Training is only needed to recognize the advantage and execute it, and not attempt to become the master of all and everything. No one needs 10,000 hours for it. For a soccer player it's like waiting until even the goalie has been dodged, and suddenly transporting oneself into the game, to just tip the ball in the goal. No need to learn too much dribbling, no need to have much of a stamina. Just one setup and goal after goal whenever similar conditions show up. Ronaldo needed 10,000 hours, not you. You have the advantage of picking your time, place, mood, and conditions before engaging. We're not talking about being that super billionaire trader. We're talking about NOT being the 95% who don't make a dime. Remember, trading is a losing game. The BEST LOSER is the long term winner, as said the sage.

Gringo
 
  • One of the best rules anybody can learn about investing is to do nothing, absolutely nothing, unless there is something to do. Most people always have to be playing; they always have to be doing something. They can't just sit there and wait for something new to develop. I wait until there is money lying in the corner, and all I have to do is go over there and pick it up. I do nothing in the meantime. Even people who lose money in the market say, 'I just lost my money, now I have to do something to make it back.' No, you don't. You should sit there until you find something.

    -- Jim Rogers
 
I may not subscribe to every point made in Gringo's post but rather than nitpick my small points of disagreement I'll just say that it's an important post and goes a long way in describing an important edge you can own from day one. To put it in poker terms you do not have to worry about mixing up your play. If you want to simply play paired aces and kings and watch the rest of the time be the market's guest. The new guy trading in small size can get faded in most any instrument during RTH so pick your spot and no one folds.

You do not have to play marginal edges. You do not have to play unless even a baboon can see it is a trend from the open. As the man says it's your CHOICE. If all the ducks are not quite in a row you can -- and maybe should -- sit on your hands. Master that early on and you'll have an edge over 95% of the other novices. Learn not to trade and buy the time you need to learn to trade. It took me more time than it should have to truly learn this (truly = not just intelectually). Learn it quick and save!

Quote from Gringo:

The advantage compared to golf, martial arts, wrestling, soccer, and all other competitive competitions is CHOICE. The choice to disengage when the opposition is playing well. No one else can do that. The tennis player cannot say I am taking a break and just abort a potentially losing game. This is an ultimate advantage. The martial artist can't just quit just before an arm lock is almost in place. Those guys when they lose they lose completely. But not a trader. You feel not up to the task, you exit. The market feels overwhelming, you exit. Eventually you'll get your perfect set up, where all the ducks line up, and you engage and stay in as long as necessary, and out again. What a wonderful game this is if one is aware of the ultimate advantage. Isn't it? This allows one to not spend 10,000 hours to figure out all kinds of variations and possibilities. What a person needs is a simple, profitable, tested, and repeatable plan that fits the trader's personality. Training is only needed to recognize the advantage and execute it, and not attempt to become the master of all and everything. No one needs 10,000 hours for it. For a soccer player it's like waiting until even the goalie has been dodged, and suddenly transporting oneself into the game, to just tip the ball in the goal. No need to learn too much dribbling, no need to have much of a stamina. Just one setup and goal after goal whenever similar conditions show up. Ronaldo needed 10,000 hours, not you. You have the advantage of picking your time, place, mood, and conditions before engaging. We're not talking about being that super billionaire trader. We're talking about NOT being the 95% who don't make a dime. Remember, trading is a losing game. The BEST LOSER is the long term winner, as said the sage.

Gringo
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