Some ways to define a Trend.

Ok, agree with you on slope, that was just the simplest example. I still believe that in the definition and calculation of trend (however one chooses), the time frame determines what the trend will be, and not vice versa.

My opinion of course, but that is what makes markets.
 
Ok, agree with you on slope, that was just the simplest example. I still believe that in the definition and calculation of trend (however one chooses), the time frame determines what the trend will be, and not vice versa.

My opinion of course, but that is what makes markets.
The measurement of a trend is entirely dependent on sampling rate and sample size. The sampling rate (aka timeframe) is arbitrary but the trader usually has a pretty good idea which timeframe he wants to trade in. However the sample size (aka period length) can be chosen to maximize trendiness or any other quantifiable pattern characteristic within a given timeframe.
 
In forex if something really starts to move up on 5 min time frame and you look at 4h and daily and they are all trending higher you can start to really fire into it with confidence
 

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Thats 4 hour uptrend, but im trading the 5 min...

even if 5 min fails the 4 hour usually backs you up and brings 5 min into line
 

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Defining a trend over a given time period x is easy, and can be done by any number of methods. However, how do you choose the value of x? Choosing x is arbitrary, and trading a trend going forward based off of x will be randomly distributed. The smaller the value of x, the more random the movement of price will be. That is until you reach the HFT time scale and can possibly get a structural advantage over other market participants.

You are left with two fundamental trading strategies based on price action alone. Trade the momentum in the direction of your defined trend, or fade price weakness toward the direction of your defined trend and get out quickly in either case if you are wrong. However, since your choice of time frame is arbitrary and your choice of what constitutes "wrong" is arbitrary, again, your results will be randomly distributed.

So what the hell do you do then to try to do better than 50/50 odds? Perhaps filter price action against volume action, fundamental information, or trade some statistical relationship between multiple instruments.

Sorry I don't have the holy grail answer here, but I'm just a retail guy with no "edge" in anything, and have never done better than break even using only price action and TA. I just don't believe trend trading works, unless perhaps you extrapolate to a decades long buy and hold diversified strategy, and even that has been shown to not always be guaranteed to be a viable strategy.
 
Defining a trend over a given time period x is easy, and can be done by any number of methods. However, how do you choose the value of x? Choosing x is arbitrary, and trading a trend going forward based off of x will be randomly distributed. The smaller the value of x, the more random the movement of price will be. That is until you reach the HFT time scale and can possibly get a structural advantage over other market participants.

You are left with two fundamental trading strategies based on price action alone. Trade the momentum in the direction of your defined trend, or fade price weakness toward the direction of your defined trend and get out quickly in either case if you are wrong. However, since your choice of time frame is arbitrary and your choice of what constitutes "wrong" is arbitrary, again, your results will be randomly distributed.

So what the hell do you do then to try to do better than 50/50 odds? Perhaps filter price action against volume action, fundamental information, or trade some statistical relationship between multiple instruments.

Sorry I don't have the holy grail answer here, but I'm just a retail guy with no "edge" in anything, and have never done better than break even using only price action and TA. I just don't believe trend trading works, unless perhaps you extrapolate to a decades long buy and hold diversified str
??
I was going to point panzerman in the right direction but then decided not to post this insight on an open forum. What I will say though is that one definition of madness is " Repeatedly doing the same thing whilst expecting a different outcome", particularly if you already know you are doing the wrong thing. After all this discussion is about identifying trends, which are an edge not a strategy.
Cheers John
 
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