Some Materials about Tibet

[Neodude]

Intel, maps don't mean much. Poland and various other soviet satellite nations didn't exist on official maps for many years, it still doesn't change the fact that they have different cultural identities then regular Russians. The same applies to Tibet, to insinuate that Tibet belongs to China because someone drew it so on a map is frivolous. Tibetans have a distinct culture going back a couple of thousand years. I bet you don't realize, but certain maps from long ago of China don't show Korea, nor any of the other Asian countries as distinct nations either, but it still doesn't change their right to sovereignty. You seem to be missing the point I am trying to make, which is that the Communists in China are purposely destroying the cultural identity of Tibet in order to claim the land under Tibetan feet. Do you disagree with this assertion?

-Neo

PS. Ever wonder why the Tibetans don't like Chinese rule? I mean if they have always loved being part of China, why the sudden change of feelings?

Quote from Intelinvestor:

From all the official maps from early 1700 till now, I haven't seen one single map which indicates that Tibet was/is not part of China.

Here is one map in 1914 published by the preeminent American publisher of maps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LA2-NSRW-1-0148.jpg

Since China has continuously ruled Tibet more years than U.S. history, why do the media always lie to us that Tibet was independent before Communist China era(since 1949)? Should the media tell us the truth?

How Communist China rule Tibet is their own business, not other countries’. Should U.S. allow black slaves on its territory? Well, if U.S. free black slaves in the south, do you think China have a say over this? Should China say, wait a minute, the south of U.S. should keep its tradition and keep the plantations. You would say, either we have slaves or not, none of China’s business.

 

[Tums]

Quote from Neodude:

... You seem to be missing the point I am trying to make, which is that the Communists in China are purposely destroying the cultural identity of Tibet in order to claim the land under Tibetan feet. Do you disagree with this assertion?

-Neo

LOL... if the Chinese were out to destroy the Tibetan cultural identity, the monks would have been gone for 49 years.

You have an assertion, I am waiting for your substantiation.

 

[TraderC]

Quote from Neodude:

You seem to be missing the point I am trying to make, which is that the Communists in China are purposely destroying the cultural identity of Tibet in order to claim the land under Tibetan feet. Do you disagree with this assertion?

-Neo

How much Native American culture is still around? Do you see Buffalo hunting anymore? How about the teepees? Maybe in a museum.

All the natives nowadays are either busy drinking or running casinos. How's that for a cultural genocide?

Before you criticize others, look at yourself in the mirror. If you really want to do something good for the natives, you can start by moving back to Europe or whereever your ancestors came from.

 

[Intelinvestor]

Wow, maps and other countries recognition don't matter.

Then we can claim, Hawaii, Texas and California are independent countries.

In contrast to your claim, Communists in China are trying to keep the uniqueness of Tibetan culture now. If Communists followed what US did to the American Indians, they would kill the Tibetans and claimed their land 50 years ago. They were capable to do that, but they did not do it. What they did was that they freed the slaves from the Da Lai Lama's rule. Don't forget what Communism means. It is a noble concept, but unrealistic at the moment.

From Wiki:
Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production.

Quote from Neodude:

Intel, maps don't mean much. Poland and various other soviet satellite nations didn't exist on official maps for many years, it still doesn't change the fact that they have different cultural identities then regular Russians. The same applies to Tibet, to insinuate that Tibet belongs to China because someone drew it so on a map is frivolous. Tibetans have a distinct culture going back a couple of thousand years. I bet you don't realize, but certain maps from long ago of China don't show Korea, nor any of the other Asian countries as distinct nations either, but it still doesn't change their right to sovereignty. You seem to be missing the point I am trying to make, which is that the Communists in China are purposely destroying the cultural identity of Tibet in order to claim the land under Tibetan feet. Do you disagree with this assertion?

-Neo

 

[sakimonohito]

Quote from Tums:

LOL... if the Chinese were out to destroy the Tibetan cultural identity, the monks would have been gone for 49 years.

You have an assertion, I am waiting for your substantiation.

Ok ok. I can see where you wanted to go with your point but you didn't quite make it there.

Let's change the cultures here and see if it makes sense at all.

"If the Taliban were out to destroy cultural identity, the Afghanis would have been gone for 49 years."

No, I don't think the Afghanis would leave their homeland for the Taliban without a fight and I don't think the Tibetans will either.

Consider your own hometown and imagine that you local supermarket was converted one day from its normal suppliers to one of a completely different culture. Could you eat the food, would you even want to buy it? WOuldn't it make you incredibly unfcomfortable?

 

[Neodude]

The timing is a matter of circumstance. China has had bigger things to worry about then a waste land with a few monks in it. Now that land is more and more precious and there is a growing world awareness of Tibet's plight it is in China's best interest to tone down Tibet's self identity before it gets out of hand.

As I said before, if what China was doing had no harmful effect on Tibetans, then Tibetans wouldn't be protesting about their ill treatment, after all if there is no smoke then there is no need to yell fire. Also, there would be no need to have a media black-out about what is happening in Tibet, but it looks like the Communists don't want anyone to see whether the Tibetans are happy campers or the oppressed folks they claim they are.

-Neo

Quote from Tums:

LOL... if the Chinese were out to destroy the Tibetan cultural identity, the monks would have been gone for 49 years.

You have an assertion, I am waiting for your substantiation.

 

[Neodude]

I do look in the mirror and learning from my own mistakes as well as that of my ancestors is one of the things I take into consideration. Just because someone of the same race as me has committed a harmful act does not preclude me from speaking out against it.

Quote from TraderC:

How much Native American culture is still around? Do you see Buffalo hunting anymore? How about the teepees? Maybe in a museum.

All the natives nowadays are either busy drinking or running casinos. How's that for a cultural genocide?

Before you criticize others, look at yourself in the mirror. If you really want to do something good for the natives, you can start by moving back to Europe or whereever your ancestors came from.

 

[Intelinvestor]

If you were the masters of those slaves,
would you like the current situation?

Just like that if you bot some stock options and you made 100 times, you are ecstatic.
Can you understand the option writers
eyes were red with weeping?

Quote from Neodude:

PS. Ever wonder why the Tibetans don't like Chinese rule? I mean if they have always loved being part of China, why the sudden change of feelings? [/B]

 

[Neodude]

Intel, this is my last post since talking to you is like banging my head against a brick wall. Your analogies are apples to oranges, and my personal opinion is that if any of those states want to become independent so be it, I don't care much for maintaining a country of states that don't "WANT" to be part of the union.

From my own past experience I can tell you that Communist ideals are nice on paper, but they will never work in real life. Humans are too lazy, greedy and want to control other peoples lives. The communists in China are oppressive power hungry dictators like many other governments around the world and the fact that they try to suppress what is going on in Tibet is testament to their intentions.

Good night,
Neo

Quote from Intelinvestor:

Wow, maps and other countries recognition don't matter.

Then we can claim, Hawaii, Texas and California are independent countries.

In contrast to your claim, Communists in China are trying to keep the uniqueness of Tibetan culture now. If Communists followed what US did to the American Indians, they would kill the Tibetans and claimed their land 50 years ago. They were capable to do that, but they did not do it. What they did was that they freed the slaves from the Da Lai Lama's rule. Don't forget what Communism means. It is a noble concept, but unrealistic at the moment.

From Wiki:
Communism is a socioeconomic structure that promotes the establishment of a classless, stateless society based on common ownership of the means of production.

 

[Tums]

Quote from Neodude:

The timing is a matter of circumstance. China has had bigger things to worry about then a waste land with a few monks in it. ...
-Neo

That's a conjecture, not a substantiation.