solution to avoid Profitable Strategies Copied by a Broker?

[trade78]

Hi,

That's what I am thinking. I think big funds go through brokerage firms too (though big one) and their account is much bigger and funds managers employ strategies. So, even if strategies are being monitored or duplicated, would there a chance that bigger and profitable account and reputable funds (in terms of past returns) run by some reputable fund managers being monitored more likely? Or just non-sense?

Quote from Bogan7:

To give you a clue our desk would execute 100-250k lots of futures/options a day (5 of us) on average more if we got a big option trade away grow up you noob only people maybe interested in your strategy is if you are at a low vol bucket shop then you deserve what you get

 

[Bogan7]

This is the most stupid thread I have seen in a long time. Some noob dickhead thinks a fund or broker would be bothered to steal his strategy? Having worked both as a broker and hedge fund trader I keep pissing myself with laughter everytime i read it.

GROW UP MATE NOBODY CARES

 

[joesan]

Use several brokers to mix the trades, it requires more capital, but it do miracles to solve your psychological problem.

 

[ssss]

but it's also unrealistic, in terms of capital utilization and risk management, to split one position into two accounts. this way you spend huge capital to make much smaller profit.


Sorry Sir

From different point of view alsov small capital must be divided
through different brokers

Most broker's are not pure agents -avoid
You can win only from your broker pocket

Pure agent can have technology error
(MBT losed position overnight multiple time's
search thread MBT)

You can have margin conflict with broker

2 account ,each with 2000 $ by pure agents
as example AMTD,OXPS, or MBT

is better as one account with 4000$

 

[Spectre2007]

hedge your strat with 2X multiplier in another account, blow the acct out every so often and replenish it from offset acct, you will skake off anyone trying to duplicate you or replicating your orderflow.

 

[wilburbear]

Quote from inPeace:

if i repeat a successful strategy everyday and profits piling up quickly, my broker will eventually duplicate and thus destroying it.

but it's also unrealistic, in terms of capital utilization and risk management, to split one position into two accounts. this way you spend huge capital to make much smaller profit.

you need at least 5 to 10 times margin to trade one contract. still no guarantee that your bleeding side of the position's safe from liquidation. and then the commission would probably be doubled because you need to flat two accounts everytime..

options strategies could be even more difficult because you have to hide your cover contracts elsewhere..

any good idea?

Great topic. I had a method where I could easily make a profit for 20 days in a row. It's not about support and resistance lines, etc. My broker called me up one day, early on, to clarify a point in the strategy, so I know he was looking. A few months later a 20-year friend of mine walked in to do business with this same broker - without the broker knowing we were connected - and the broker was teaching my method to people walking in the door - to get commissions on the trades, and he was staking younger guys money so he could get 50% of their profits.

Forget every skeptical post that has occurred before in this thread. Brokers absolutely use your profitable methods. Nothing prohibits them. If you see money just sitting on the floor, do you walk over and pick it up? Yes. So does your broker.

There was a thread about this years ago. A prominent broker and poster on ET pooh-poohed this idea of brokers sharing your profitable ideas. This person also has many posts stating - "Well, the guys I know are having good luck doing "xyz" now." When a trader gets into a groove, I'm sure he doesn't authorize his broker to tell everyone else what the method is. The broker will then say, "Well, I've shared other good ideas with you, too." Yeah, and the broker passes the good ideas all around, and sits at the top of the pyramid getting the commissions. The most profitable guys won't want their ideas shared because they won't get back what they put in (involuntarily), in the first place.

How about looking for solutions on the remainder of this thread?

I had another thing where I signed a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with a software writer. 2 days after I started trading it, another guy was in there doing it. It was unmistakable. I won't say how I knew, but you guys who've sat in front of trading screens for years in a row, will see very specific things happen, and you'll say, "Oh, there's that guy again." And this second idea was of that type, but raised to the "nth" power. This software guy was a roundabout friend of my family, and a supposed "good guy" connected to my trading shop, and the methodology still got out. He was an individual working under an LLC that probably had $500 bucks in the bank. Not much there. I thought just the connection between our families would have prohibited this stuff, but it didn't. Again, when you see money just sitting on the floor, do you walk over and pick it up? Yes.

Solutions?

 

[inPeace]

Thanks for sharing this valueable experience!
i think one must do some precautions with small brokers. that's what i'm trying to do.

in regard to software writing, besides nda, my expeirience is to only give him the structure without reveling the details, also add one or two useless parameters here and there. that way is safer.
but then what is still the most important is that this programmer behaves like a honest person that worth your trust. because there would be lots of contacts and you r technologically vulnerable.

Quote from wilburbear:

Great topic. I had a method where I could easily make a profit for 20 days in a row. It's not about support and resistance lines, etc. ..............

I had another thing where I signed a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with a software writer. 2 days after I started trading it, another guy was in there doing it. It was unmistakable. I won't say how I knew, but you guys who've sat in front of trading screens for years in a row, will see very specific things happen, and you'll say, "Oh, there's that guy again." And this second idea was of that type, but raised to the "nth" power. This software guy was a roundabout friend of my family, and a supposed "good guy" connected to my trading shop, and the methodology still got out. He was an individual working under an LLC that probably had $500 bucks in the bank. Not much there. I thought just the connection between our families would have prohibited this stuff, but it didn't. Again, when you see money just sitting on the floor, do you walk over and pick it up? Yes.

Solutions?

 

[drawer77]

Quote from optioncoach:

the broker makes money off of you whether you win or lose so they truly do not care a crap about your strategy. The more money you make the more you trade the more commissions they make. If you are trading with a retail broker, they only care that you churn your account and have no margin calls.

right, nothing more to say

 

[Equalizer]

Quote from wilburbear:

Great topic. I had a method where I could easily make a profit for 20 days in a row. It's not about support and resistance lines, etc. My broker called me up one day, early on, to clarify a point in the strategy, so I know he was looking. A few months later a 20-year friend of mine walked in to do business with this same broker - without the broker knowing we were connected - and the broker was teaching my method to people walking in the door - to get commissions on the trades, and he was staking younger guys money so he could get 50% of their profits.

Forget every skeptical post that has occurred before in this thread. Brokers absolutely use your profitable methods. Nothing prohibits them. If you see money just sitting on the floor, do you walk over and pick it up? Yes. So does your broker.

There was a thread about this years ago. A prominent broker and poster on ET pooh-poohed this idea of brokers sharing your profitable ideas. This person also has many posts stating - "Well, the guys I know are having good luck doing "xyz" now." When a trader gets into a groove, I'm sure he doesn't authorize his broker to tell everyone else what the method is. The broker will then say, "Well, I've shared other good ideas with you, too." Yeah, and the broker passes the good ideas all around, and sits at the top of the pyramid getting the commissions. The most profitable guys won't want their ideas shared because they won't get back what they put in (involuntarily), in the first place.

How about looking for solutions on the remainder of this thread?

I had another thing where I signed a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with a software writer. 2 days after I started trading it, another guy was in there doing it. It was unmistakable. I won't say how I knew, but you guys who've sat in front of trading screens for years in a row, will see very specific things happen, and you'll say, "Oh, there's that guy again." And this second idea was of that type, but raised to the "nth" power. This software guy was a roundabout friend of my family, and a supposed "good guy" connected to my trading shop, and the methodology still got out. He was an individual working under an LLC that probably had $500 bucks in the bank. Not much there. I thought just the connection between our families would have prohibited this stuff, but it didn't. Again, when you see money just sitting on the floor, do you walk over and pick it up? Yes.

Solutions?

All very good points, especially the one about these chicken-shit NDAs that noobs go on about every so often - I mean lets get real guys, the paper the NDA is written on is probably only good for wiping your arse with - to be blunt.

Re the broker copying your sheah - well, you have to have multiple brokers (i.e., distributed portfolio - varying strategies, etc, etc, ...) and move money about all the time. That is once you can make money and have a decent sized account, otherwise do you think these guys would care if you can only make a bit of money here and there with your bog standard 5K account?