You really can't judge Sierra Chart from screenshots. You actually have to work with it. The horizontal scrollbar though cannot be disabled. It is possible to remove the Title bars from charts. Definitely you will find that you can customize the Sierra Chart desktop to what you require. Charts can be detached from the main window as well. And the charts are obviously highly customizable in every way you can think of. The fonts, and everything else. A screenshot just shows one particular configuration.
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Software to trade on the chart
- Thread starter alessm
- Start date
You really can't judge Sierra Chart from screenshots. You actually have to work with it. The horizontal scrollbar though cannot be disabled. It is possible to remove the Title bars from charts. Definitely you will find that you can customize the Sierra Chart desktop to what you require. Charts can be detached from the main window as well. And the charts are obviously highly customizable in every way you can think of. The fonts, and everything else. A screenshot just shows one particular configuration.
Quote from SierraChart:
You really can't judge Sierra Chart from screenshots. You actually have to work with it. The horizontal scrollbar though cannot be disabled. It is possible to remove the Title bars from charts. Definitely you will find that you can customize the Sierra Chart desktop to what you require. Charts can be detached from the main window as well. And the charts are obviously highly customizable in every way you can think of. The fonts, and everything else. A screenshot just shows one particular configuration.
Well if the 1001st or 1002nd feature you add ever includes the option of getting rid of that unecessary horizontal scrollbar let me know and I'll be more than happy to try it out. Personally I have a hard enough time squeezing all the charts I currently use on my monitors now without having to worry about adding an extra 20 or 25 pixels or so to each and every chart window for no good reason.
The scrollbar is a very fundamental part of the chart and I suppose we could add an option to remove it, but if someone accidentally removes it, then they would wonder what happened to it. So we just feel it's best to leave it and not add an option. You are using multiple monitors, so it would seem as though you have plenty of space. And with the resolution of monitors, the scrollbar really shouldn't be much problem I would think. I think even the thickness of it is controllable through Windows.Quote from Jachyra:
Well if the 1001st or 1002nd feature you add ever includes the option of getting rid of that unecessary horizontal scrollbar let me know and I'll be more than happy to try it out. Personally I have a hard enough time squeezing all the charts I currently use on my monitors now without having to worry about adding an extra 20 or 25 pixels or so to each and every chart window for no good reason.
Can't that be said about any feature? What if a user "accidentally" removes the window's title bar? Wouldn't they be confused about that as well? What if they "accidentally" removed some other feature?Quote from SierraChart:
The scrollbar is a very fundamental part of the chart and I suppose we could add an option to remove it, but if someone accidentally removes it, then they would wonder what happened to it. So we just feel it's best to leave it and not add an option.
And I would argue that the scrollbar is only a fundamental part of the window because thats how you designed it -- not because thats the best implementation or the way it "has to be" -- its just your implementation. Don't get me wrong, a lot of vendors do it (imho its usually older programs that tried to follow or copy Tradestation's charts back in the day)... but there are plenty of other charting packages out there that implement their charts without any scrollbars whatsoever (i.e. esignal and CQG). In my opinion, its a much cleaner solution because (1) it doesn't needlessly use up pixels and (2) because its easier and more intuitive in "realtime" because you can just click and drag on any part of the chart to accomplish your scrolling vs. having to actually move the mouse down to the bottom edge of the window (and if you're not a realtime trader or just an end of day trader I know you're not going to agree or understand). Not to mention that you can scroll the chart anyways with the keyboard.
With all due respect sir, writing the software is your business... figuring out how to lay it out and how to best use my screen real estate for how I trade -- is my business. But just for the record I have 6 lcd's each at 1200x1600 (all in portrait mode) and I assure you that I have no more room for additional pixels without changing my layout or resizing windows to some degree.Quote from SierraChart:
You are using multiple monitors, so it would seem as though you have plenty of space. And with the resolution of monitors, the scrollbar really shouldn't be much problem I would think.
You know, I had such a hunch that that was going to be your response I ALMOST actually modified my original response to preempt it. All I can say is, imho, this is exactly whats wrong with most software vendors and products these days.... in order to avoid implementing a feature thats relatively simple and straightforward to implement, you want me to adjust the my settings globally... so that basically every single scrollbar on every single application that I use across my entire system (even the ones where the scrollbars are appropriate and sized just fine for me) is affected.Quote from SierraChart:
I think even the thickness of it is controllable through Windows.
Its your company... your product.... and of course you're more than welcome to do with it whatever you'd like.... but I just thought you had asked this forum for some feedback as to what they didn't like and what was preventing them from seriously considering using Sierra Chart so I was just telling you what it would take to convince me.
It is not "relatively simple and straightforward to implement" to remove the scrollbar. Internally there is a reliance upon it. It also provides the user a visual indication of where they are among the loaded bars in the chart. These other programs you mentioned, may have different techniques to handle data. If I did not see a scrollbar, I would wonder if a page is even scrollable. It's unusual in applications to not see a scrollbar on a page that is scrollable.
Also you can grab the chart, if in a certain mode, and slide it left and right in Sierra Chart.
Maybe one day we will add the option, but with so many other priority things, it's not something that's really worth our time right now. Providing reliable fast software, supporting more data and trading services, and enhancing the most needed features is what's important.
Also you can grab the chart, if in a certain mode, and slide it left and right in Sierra Chart.
Maybe one day we will add the option, but with so many other priority things, it's not something that's really worth our time right now. Providing reliable fast software, supporting more data and trading services, and enhancing the most needed features is what's important.
Sounds more like an excuse to me than anything else... you already admit that the functionality to scroll the chart back and forth in time is currently available WITHOUT the scrollbars (i.e. you you can click and drag on the chart or you can use the arrow keys on the keyboard)... so it is actually as simple as hiding the scrollbar and a little other code cleanup. The real issue is that you just see value in the scrollbars and want them in your application (which of course is your right)... but its disingenuous for your to assert that its difficult or not-straightforward when 95% of everything you'd have to implement (alternative scrolling controls) are already implemented.Quote from SierraChart:
It is not "relatively simple and straightforward to implement" to remove the scrollbar. Internally there is a reliance upon it. It also provides the user a visual indication of where they are among the loaded bars in the chart. Also you can grab the chart, if in a certain mode, and slide it left and right in Sierra Chart.
These other programs I mention? You act like you've never heard of or seen a CQG chart... or an esignal chart... and perhaps you have not or else we wouldn't be having this ridiculous debate over a relatively standard feature in most "professional quality" trading applications... and I would strongly suspect THAT is the major problem. And honestly, charts without scrollbars have been around for sooo long now (CQG has had them ever since I started using it in 1999) that if you... as a trader... really couldn't figure out how to manipulate a chart window and were completely lost and didn't know what to do just because there weren't scrollbars on the chart.... that I would think that person probably has very little right trading and is most likely not very smart anyways.Quote from SierraChart:
These other programs you mentioned, may have different techniques to handle data. If I did not see a scrollbar, I would wonder if a page is even scrollable. It's unusual in applications to not see a scrollbar on a page that is scrollable.
Dude I could care less if you ever add it... there are lots of other more expensive (but also more feature-rich) software packages out there for me to choose from anyways that already have all the features I'm looking for.... All I said was that if you ever do add that one simple feature to send me a PM or an email or something to let me know because I'd be interested in trying out your software (which by now its clear that its probably never going to happen -- so I'll make sure not to hold my breath).Quote from SierraChart:
Maybe one day we will add the option, but with so many other priority things, it's not something that's really worth our time right now. Providing reliable fast software, supporting more data and trading services, and enhancing the most needed features is what's important.
Quote from Jachyra:
Sounds more like an excuse to me than anything else... you already admit that the functionality to scroll the chart back and forth in time is currently available WITHOUT the scrollbars (i.e. you you can click and drag on the chart or you can use the arrow keys on the keyboard)... so it is actually as simple as hiding the scrollbar and a little other code cleanup. The real issue is that you just see value in the scrollbars and want them in your application (which of course is your right)... but its disingenuous for your to assert that its difficult or not-straightforward when 95% of everything you'd have to implement (alternative scrolling controls) are already implemented.
These other programs I mention? You act like you've never heard of or seen a CQG chart... or an esignal chart... and perhaps you have not or else we wouldn't be having this ridiculous debate over a relatively standard feature in most "professional quality" trading applications... and I would strongly suspect THAT is the major problem. And honestly, charts without scrollbars have been around for sooo long now (CQG has had them ever since I started using it in 1999) that if you... as a trader... really couldn't figure out how to manipulate a chart window and were completely lost and didn't know what to do just because there weren't scrollbars on the chart.... that I would think that person probably has very little right trading and is most likely not very smart anyways.
Dude I could care less if you ever add it... there are lots of other more expensive (but also more feature-rich) software packages out there for me to choose from anyways that already have all the features I'm looking for.... All I said was that if you ever do add that one simple feature to send me a PM or an email or something to let me know because I'd be interested in trying out your software (which by now its clear that its probably never going to happen -- so I'll make sure not to hold my breath).
I'll give you a +1 for that because I know that when I started getting into trading not too long ago one of the reasons I eventually went with eSignal over Sierra was because Sierra did not offer detached windows and because I too couldn't figure out how to get rid of those stupid scroll bars. If detached windows have finally been added, then I guess its just the scroll bars that are still wonky.
But I agree with you completely. It is not like you are asking them to make some big dramatic change that will affect all users across the board. You are just asking for the option to do it and considering how customizable they would like you to believe the program is, it seems like a pretty reasonable request.
But honestly, I think they either don't know better or just don't care. Just listen to the guy's own words. They added over 1000 new features or whatever and they still have never heard or seen what you are describing. Thats unbelievable in and of itself.
Quote from nyustudent:
I'll give you a +1 for that because I know that when I started getting into trading not too long ago one of the reasons I eventually went with eSignal over Sierra was because Sierra did not offer detached windows and because I too couldn't figure out how to get rid of those stupid scroll bars. If detached windows have finally been added, then I guess its just the scroll bars that are still wonky.
But I agree with you completely. It is not like you are asking them to make some big dramatic change that will affect all users across the board. You are just asking for the option to do it and considering how customizable they would like you to believe the program is, it seems like a pretty reasonable request.
But honestly, I think they either don't know better or just don't care. Just listen to the guy's own words. They added over 1000 new features or whatever and they still have never heard or seen what you are describing. Thats unbelievable in and of itself.
We do offer detached charts now. And the work to implement that was very extensive. Which was the reason it took a while.
Quote from nyustudent:
I'll give you a +1 for that because I know that when I started getting into trading not too long ago one of the reasons I eventually went with eSignal over Sierra was because Sierra did not offer detached windows and because I too couldn't figure out how to get rid of those stupid scroll bars. If detached windows have finally been added, then I guess its just the scroll bars that are still wonky.
But I agree with you completely. It is not like you are asking them to make some big dramatic change that will affect all users across the board. You are just asking for the option to do it and considering how customizable they would like you to believe the program is, it seems like a pretty reasonable request.
But honestly, I think they either don't know better or just don't care. Just listen to the guy's own words. They added over 1000 new features or whatever and they still have never heard or seen what you are describing. Thats unbelievable in and of itself.
I know... imagine that... a world where charts don't actually have to have scrollbars... what a revolutionary idea right?... how could it possibly be done? how could we all coexist in the same universe together? what user would ever understand such an outrageous idea? I mean its only been out and around and available in top-tier trading applications for over 10 years now... but whats 10 years... I mean thats nothing more than a puny decade right.... big woop. And who's ever heard of eSignal and CQG anyways... I mean, they sound so overpriced compared to all the features you can get for only $22 per month.
I mean most people on this board would agree that Tradestation basically sucks... and yet, even Tradestation has had the the option to auto-hide a chart's horizontal scrollbar since the company was calling itself Omega Research and doing lame ass seminars on Saturday afternoons.
The ironic (and sad) part is that their application either doesn't have the ability to scale along the vertical price axis or they DO have the ability and they've defeated their own argument right there -- because based on the screenshots I saw -- I didn't see any vertical scrollbars to scroll the price axis up and down and yet their users seem to have figured it out just fine. But like I said, maybe they don't actually have that ability anyways... which would be another good reason to stay away... but who knows.
All I know is I got an answer to my original question.... no, it can't be done.
Quote from Jachyra:
I know... imagine that... a world where charts don't actually have to have scrollbars... what a revolutionary idea right?... how could it possibly be done? how could we all coexist in the same universe together? what user would ever understand such an outrageous idea? I mean its only been out and around and available in top-tier trading applications for over 10 years now... but whats 10 years... I mean thats nothing more than a puny decade right.... big woop. And who's ever heard of eSignal and CQG anyways... I mean, they sound so overpriced compared to all the features you can get for only $22 per month.
I mean most people on this board would agree that Tradestation basically sucks... and yet, even Tradestation has had the the option to auto-hide a chart's horizontal scrollbar since the company was calling itself Omega Research and doing lame ass seminars on Saturday afternoons.
The ironic (and sad) part is that their application either doesn't have the ability to scale along the vertical price axis or they DO have the ability and they've defeated their own argument right there -- because based on the screenshots I saw -- I didn't see any vertical scrollbars to scroll the price axis up and down and yet their users seem to have figured it out just fine. But like I said, maybe they don't actually have that ability anyways... which would be another good reason to stay away... but who knows.
All I know is I got an answer to my original question.... no, it can't be done.
Plus don't forget to mention that 8 of the 9 charts they list on their "Gallery of User Images" page have no scroll bars at all so prospective customers don't even realize that not only is it a feature thats unavailable, but that the company thinks its a stupid and useless feature and have it on the bottom of their to do list until after you've paid them money and found out the hard way (which is basically what happened to me).
http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=Image_gallery.php
On that entire page only 1 chart has a scroll bar. Tricky tricky.