Socialized Medicine, Pensions Coming Soon To The USA

Quote from lrm21:

I feel Barrack Obama and the Democratic Party is our Captain Smith

With the Iceberg that is U.S Debt only 500 yards ahead.

Barrack and gang are screaming.."Full Speed ahead"
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Bad analogy. They say that if the Titanic had hit the iceberg head on, it wouldnt have sank and only the fact that the ice berg had scraped the entire right side of the ship, is what made it sink. If it hit head on, only the first 1 or 2 bulkheads would've filled up with water and everyone would've lived.

Makes you wonder now thought doesnt it? We are all screaming "Whats this crazy fool doing! He's gonna hit the iceberg!" little do we know, if we keep trying to avoid it, its just going to punch holes in the side of our ship...we will keep sailing for a few more hours, but then we will sink. But dont worry...just like the titanic...most of the rich people will get into the lifeboats first.
 
Quote from gwac:

The free market really did a good job this time. 40 times leverage is the way to go. Government needs to be there to save us from ourselves.
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The beauty of our system (or what used to be our system) is those individuals and organizations that screw up get tossed to the side in semi-darwinistic fashion, thus allowing the fittest to not only survive but rise to the top and lead us collectively to a brighter future. Government should not save us from ourselves, but just provide barely enough of a safety net to prevent riots, revolution, and class warfare. Otherwise it needs to step aside and let the fire burn up the weeds so the new sprouts can take over.

If people and organizations overleveraged themselves and blew up, it's just the free market at work... in all it's glory. It just creates an opportunity for someone else. Like maybe me. Unless the government tries to save me from myself that is.
 
Quote from peilthetraveler:

"... But dont worry...just like the titanic...most of the rich people will get into the lifeboats first.
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Of course, that's how it should be. If all of the rich capitalists die, the hand-out receivers will have no cow to milk.
 
Guys, we are broke. When you are broke, socialism or not. We are broke.

I am for tax increase if government spending will not increase and all extra revenue go straight to pay off the deficit.

That's the ideal case during normal situation.

Right now, in this deflation evironment. The question is : do you believe the government can do anything about it.

If the answer is no, then let the free market rule since it is the only option.

If the answer is yes, then it gets very complicated. It means the government goes deeper into debt in exchange for future growth which will pay off the debt we have now.

There is only 2 absolutely true way to help current situation :


1) Increase your productivity. If you make one chair per day now, try to make 2 per day and get the same wage.
2) Earn foreign currency. That's right. The Japan model. Earn it the hard way and earn it from foreigners.
 
It's too late, and unproductive, to have these conversations in the "general" sense. It's time to start pounding some stakes in the ground.

Stake #1: Federal income

Federal income for '08 is ~$2.6T, or around $9,000 for every citizen/resident. If that isn't the right number - what is? Worry about how the revenue gets raised later - for now, just set the boundaries.

Stake #2: Big-ticket spending line items

Social security : $600B
Defense: $450B
War on Terror: $150B
Medicare: $400B
Medicaid + Child Medicaid: $200B (+5.6%)
UI/Welfare: $325B
Interest on debt: $400B

Total -> ~$2.6T

If the answer to question #1 is "revenues are too high", where, when and how much gets cut from these big ticket items?

Stake #3: Rest of the budget

Health & Human Services, Education, Labor, HUD, NASA, Agriculture, Energy, Treasury, Homeland Security, Interior, Transportation, etc.

Total -> ~$500B

If the answer to question #1 ISN'T "raise revenues", are all these programs simply eliminated? If not, what gets cut in their place?

Note that this ignores (for now) the extra spending dedicated to the current economic/financial mess. One dragon at a time...
 
Quote from Random.Capital:

It's too late, and unproductive, to have these conversations in the "general" sense. It's time to start pounding some stakes in the ground.

Stake #1: Federal income

Federal income for '08 is ~$2.6T, or around $9,000 for every citizen/resident. If that isn't the right number - what is? Worry about how the revenue gets raised later - for now, just set the boundaries.

Stake #2: Big-ticket spending line items

Social security : $600B
Defense: $450B
War on Terror: $150B
Medicare: $400B
Medicaid + Child Medicaid: $200B (+5.6%)
UI/Welfare: $325B
Interest on debt: $400B

Total -> ~$2.6T

If the answer to question #1 is "revenues are too high", where, when and how much gets cut from these big ticket items?

Stake #3: Rest of the budget

Health & Human Services, Education, Labor, HUD, NASA, Agriculture, Energy, Treasury, Homeland Security, Interior, Transportation, etc.

Total -> ~$500B

If the answer to question #1 ISN'T "raise revenues", are all these programs simply eliminated? If not, what gets cut in their place?

Note that this ignores (for now) the extra spending dedicated to the current economic/financial mess. One dragon at a time...
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What is lost in the numbers is how inefficient the government is in administrating the funds.

The government spends most of the money on bureaucracy. Only about 20% gets to the people the rest is pissed away on overpaid under worked government employees and government waste.

Privatize the administration of the funds and get rid of the government workers.
 
Quote from jficquette:

The government spends most of the money on bureaucracy.
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Social security has an expense ratio of under 1%. Medicare and Medicaid are under 2%. That's two of the biggest line items - do you have specific examples for any of the others?
 
Quote from Random.Capital:

Social security has an expense ratio of under 1%. Medicare and Medicaid are under 2%. That's two of the biggest line items - do you have specific examples for any of the others?
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Thats bullshit.
 
Quote from Random.Capital:

It's too late, and unproductive, to have these conversations in the "general" sense. It's time to start pounding some stakes in the ground.

Stake #1: Federal income

Federal income for '08 is ~$2.6T, or around $9,000 for every citizen/resident. If that isn't the right number - what is? Worry about how the revenue gets raised later - for now, just set the boundaries.

Stake #2: Big-ticket spending line items

Social security : $600B
Defense: $450B
War on Terror: $150B
Medicare: $400B
Medicaid + Child Medicaid: $200B (+5.6%)
UI/Welfare: $325B
Interest on debt: $400B

Total -> ~$2.6T

If the answer to question #1 is "revenues are too high", where, when and how much gets cut from these big ticket items?

Stake #3: Rest of the budget

Health & Human Services, Education, Labor, HUD, NASA, Agriculture, Energy, Treasury, Homeland Security, Interior, Transportation, etc.

Total -> ~$500B

If the answer to question #1 ISN'T "raise revenues", are all these programs simply eliminated? If not, what gets cut in their place?

Note that this ignores (for now) the extra spending dedicated to the current economic/financial mess. One dragon at a time...
More...

This should be fun:

1) Shut-down the Federal Reserve.

2) Print DEBT-FREE Currency

3) Print sufficient Green-Backs to service Debt Interest and Principle

- Save 400 Billion, first year alone.

4) Cut Defense Budget in Half (Save 200 Billion)

5) End Iraq War, bring Troops Home (Save 130 Billion)

6) Shut-Down the Border (25 Billion+)

7) Decommission the Dept of Energy, Agriculture, Education, HomeLand Security, HUD, Health and Human Services. Save ~300 Billion.

8) End the IRS, Income Tax, and Institute a Federal POS Consumption Tax of 10%

Maintain dependent programs, allow young people to opt-out, gradually phase out the programs.

Savings = 1 Trillion to 1.5 Trillion.


Further:

1) Institute Malpractise Liability Caps to reduce Medical Costs.

2) Break up AMA monopoly on enrollment, to reduce medical costs.

3) De-regulate Medical Insurers

Savings = ~200 Billion.

4) Strip all Unions of legal force.

5) Break up Academic Monopolies on College Accreditation.

4) Cap bloated Government Pensions at 60% Gross Earning.

Savings = ~100 Billion.


Other Costs:

1) Rebate Federal Voucher of $3,000 per child, for Private Education Tuition. Annual.

Cost = ~200 Billion.


Projected Total Savings = 1.1 to 1.6 Trillion Dollars.
 
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