Socialised health care in Canada poll

I disagree, and stand by my original post. Costs for equivalent procedures and for equivalent drugs, almost across the board, are significantly lower in Canada, and all other developed countries.

Rationing, whether it exists or not, is not relevant to the point i made, which is that until costs in the US are brought down no real progress can be made in addressing the failure of the US health care system.

I would agree with letting the free market operate, as that, i believe, is the best way to bring down cost. But you do understand, don't you, that the US Healthcare system is just about as far from a free market capitalist system as you can get! It is, in fact, a government condoned* Cartel in which the FDA and other government bodies are complicit! It is highly regulated and this regulation serves the interests of the Cartel, not the patient.
More...

Canada can price control and buy in bulk, because the drugs and therapies are developed in other countries and they are a relatively small market. In total government controlled systems, new drugs are fewer.

We are in agreement- get the government, and the lawyers, the hell out and costs will come down over time. That does mean unsocialized medicine and the wide discrepancies in who gets what, which is politically impossible. The only option left is less service as what happens under medicare etc.
 
Quote from Mav88:

We are in agreement- get the government, and the lawyers, the hell out and costs will come down over time. That does mean unsocialized medicine and the wide discrepancies in who gets what, which is politically impossible. The only option left is less service as what happens under medicare etc.
More...

It just doesn't wash. In just about every other Western country, there is more govt involvement in health care than in the US. But the US is the most expensive. How does that come about ?

Not only more expensive but Americans are probably less healthy and have a lower life expectancy than many comparable countries. Face facts.
 
I don't trust HMOs just like I don't trust ExxonMobil to develop alternative energy sources.

Economists call undesirable market outcomes market failures. Certain things are not up for discussion in any civilized country ever. (K-12 is one of those)

Many countries have figured out that diverting resources to certain critical projects for the common good is beneficial to everyone in the long run. A society is a bit more than collection of individuals.

If you adopt the attitude "I am not paying for the education or health care of anybody else" you will find your country outclassed technologically by those who don't share those views.

The rich are not magicians creating money out of thin air. They tap into the infrastructure, human and capital resources and into the legal framework (and rule of law) that already exists(and was created by others).
That existing organization can be called "society".

Not one of US billionaires would ever be a billionaire had he/she been borne in Zimbabwe for example.

US is one of the few countries that does not offer paid maternal leave (Iran and Liberia are in that elite group as well I think...) For a country that considers itself rich (and if we are to believe propaganda coming from talk radio) providing for the healthcare of its citizens is one of the least things it can do.

P.S I find it rather laughable how conservatives trash government run everything but yet always say how US military is the best in the world and support the troops...
 
We already have government run healthcare; it's called Medicare and Medicaid. What the government should do is just extend government healthcare to the entire country for free paid for by taxes and eliminate insurance companies who are only in it to make a profit. Hopefully, our taxes don't go up either. Government run healthcare would only mean that the doctors submit the bill to the government, instead of the insurance company. So the only thing that would really change is the address where the bill is submitted. A single payor system would simplify things alot for the doctors. Of course, the government would need to have set dollar amounts that they reimburse for a certain procedure, in order to avoid being overbilled.
 
"So the only thing that would really change is the address where the bill is submitted"

I think what we are discussing mostly is health care for the 40 million or so( and I was one) people who go though life without health care insurance or whose insurance doesn't cover their procedures. So there never was an address to send the bill to other than the individual.
 
Quote from dcraig:

It just doesn't wash. In just about every other Western country, there is more govt involvement in health care than in the US. But the US is the most expensive. How does that come about ?

Not only more expensive but Americans are probably less healthy and have a lower life expectancy than many comparable countries. Face facts.
More...

You are correct of course-- The countries where the government is directly involved with health care delivery and pricing have the lowest costs. However consider at the same time that it is not correct to assume, therefore, that there is very little involvement of the US government in health care. In reality, the US government is very much involved -- FDA, NIH, CDC (and rest of the PHS), medicare, medicaid, CHIP, US custom service (that works to enforce FDA regs., etc., etc.) In spite of this, one could assert that the lack of more direct government involvement all the way down to the patient- physician-payer level is the reason US health care costs so much. But this would be wrong!

The real reason health care costs are so high in the US is not because there is a lack of direct government involvement at the physician-patient level, but rather because the US health care system is permitted to operate as a Cartel with the government's help. I can't emphasize this point too much, because it needs to be much more widely recognized if we are to do anything constructive about health care costs in the US.

My perspective comes not only from being a patient, but also from the point of view of one that is on the provider end. My grandfather, my father and his three brothers were all physicians.
 
my daughter was vaccinated for HPV... series of three shots at $180 each... the PPO insurance paid $9. the doctor wanted to add admin charegs of $63 = 3 x $21... how can a vaccination cost $600 including admin charges - the doctor agreed to drop the admin charges.. i imagine a pharma reps running all over USA pushing HPV vaccinations.
 
Quote from Troy McClure:

Now, repeat this entire thread in french.
We (USA) should just annex Canada and liberate Quebec.
Shame on me I got loyalist roots.
More...

I've always figured that the only reason you haven't annexed Canada is because you don't want anything to do with the French.:D :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top