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Socialised health care in Canada poll
- Thread starter moneymonger
- Start date
Quote from Mnphats:
I keep saying, most states have programs for the uninsured.
This is true on its face but not in practice.
If you get in a car wreck and end up in an ER, you will probably get treated and the hospital will eat the cost, assuming you have no assets for them to come after.
If you get cancer and are uninsured you are out of luck. In some places, there may be some way to subsidize your costs but it's a long shot.
I believe you are thinking of Medicaid. If so, it is not the safety net you think it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid
Quote from JOSEF:
<i>You have no idea what you talking about.I live in Sweden and I can tell you that it has one of the worst health care systems in Western Europe.Incompetent doctors imported from Poland, Bulgaria, India.Most of them can't even speak Swedish.People are waiting for years for surgeries and if you would have to visit ER for some reason, be prepared to wait at least 5-6 hours.</i>
I needed to see a knee specialist recently (here in the US) as I had pain in my knee. However, I was told that he was unavailable. Why? Because he was in Sweden to study a brand new type of knee operation that a Swedish doctor/hospital had come up with. So, Sweden can't be that bad.
By the way, I lived in Sweden for a short time. I had no problem with their system. People didn't have to worry about not being covered and the care was more than adequate.
I know Swedes who have traveled to Denmark or other countries for an operation for which they would have waited for a year or longer in their home country. Of course, they paid for it out of their own pocket, but to them it was worth it. The Swedish health care system isn't the best, but in my experience every system has its flaws, at least in Europe. Best country to be a patient in is Germany and Switzerland, imho ! The US have high quality health care, (although I wouldn't necessarily say it's superior to that of other countries) but it costs a leg and an arm and I have seen people in the US go bankrupt because of medical bills, sth. of which I've never heard of in Europe.
Quote from Mom0/pH0x:
incompetent doctors in the usa from the bahamas etc are not unheard of at all, and 5-6 hours + wait for ER visits is pretty much par for the course here too...
I believe doctors from the Bahamas are just as good as the home bred ones, on average ! People like to blame foreign doctors for the bad quality of the health care system, but that's usually not correct.
<i>I know Swedes who have traveled to Denmark or other countries for an operation for which they would have waited for a year or longer in their home country.</i>
A friend of mine in Sweden hurt his hip so badly that he needed surgery. If he had only been in the public system, he would have had to wait over a year.
However, they have (if I understood him correctly) a private option for people that are willing to pay a little bit more in adding to their regular taxes. He had enrolled in this and there was no major waiting time.
Again, no matter what, he was covered. In the US, he most likely would have been covered. But considering that 20% do not have health insurance, there is a 20% chance he would not have been covered here in the US.
A friend of mine in Sweden hurt his hip so badly that he needed surgery. If he had only been in the public system, he would have had to wait over a year.
However, they have (if I understood him correctly) a private option for people that are willing to pay a little bit more in adding to their regular taxes. He had enrolled in this and there was no major waiting time.
Again, no matter what, he was covered. In the US, he most likely would have been covered. But considering that 20% do not have health insurance, there is a 20% chance he would not have been covered here in the US.
Thanks for the insights. It sounds like Canada does indeed have one of the best healthcare systems. However, at $1200 CAD (some estimates are higher) a bed/per night, I have to believe the costs can come down.Quote from christianhgross:
I have lived in Canada, USA, Germany, Austria, UK, Switzerland, and France. And as such have experienced quite a few health care systems.
The best? French...
The problem? The French system costs! And the people who use it gladly pay for it. The French system is like Canada, except the premiums are quite a bit higher. You have very good care in France with very knowledgeable people.
My personal best is Switzerland. It is like Canada, except that the entire system is run by private institutions. The private institutions cannot cherry pick, which is a major flaw in a private system. What this means is that for basic coverage there is a predetermined price (like Canada) determined by the government. Though who you choose to give you that coverage depends on you.
In Switzerland you HAVE to get health care. You cannot live in the country without health care. That I find good.
The worst? American. Not because the quality is not good. On the contrary. The quality is very good. That is if you can afford it.
The worst worst? German. Germany has this mixed public private model. And as such the private places are doing priority over public. Quite literally doctors ask if you are private or public and as such will be put in a certain queue. And if you have any problems private drops you like a hot potato.
I had cancer and my maximum insurance coverage was hit. As a result I had the pleasure of paying for the majority of my care and treatment for cancer. It cost me most of what I have saved over the last decade, mostly because of a specific complication I had. While I'd obviously like to have the money back, I can not complain at all about the care. Even when my insurance ran out and the doctors had no real way of knowing for sure that they would be paid, I never had a problem. I was given huge discounts, both by large clinics and independent physicians, hospitals and pharamcies. This helped me substantially in paying for my treatment.
Like I said it would have been nice I suppose to have not had to have paid for most of it, but on the whole I can not complain. I was given excellent care and I have survived a disease that most do not. Even one year ago had you asked me if I'd expect to be alive right now I'd have said no. I'm not sure if there is another place outside of the United States that I could have taken part in the cutting edge care I was able to have here.
Brandon
Like I said it would have been nice I suppose to have not had to have paid for most of it, but on the whole I can not complain. I was given excellent care and I have survived a disease that most do not. Even one year ago had you asked me if I'd expect to be alive right now I'd have said no. I'm not sure if there is another place outside of the United States that I could have taken part in the cutting edge care I was able to have here.
Brandon
Canadaâs health care system is strictly speaking not a socialized one. It is a hybrid which is comprised of both a public and a private component. As an analogy it works at a high level like your military defense system. The part of the military defense system that does the front line fighting (army, navy, and air force) is public and is funded directly by government thru tax. The military industrial complex that supplies the weapon systems, the communication systems, the food rations, etc is comprised of private companies. The front line healthcare system in Canada that interacts directly with the patients is publicly funded by the government thru tax. However the health care support system that comprises of companies that develop and manufacture drugs and medical equipment and companies that perform lab tests etc are all private companies. Therefore medical innovations by private companies can take place in Canada.
I think some of the people who are against the idea of a universal health care system may feel this way because they do not like the idea of having the government taking more money (i.e. tax) from their paycheck to pay for it. They believe that a free market system where you decide how to spend your money on healthcare is a better and more efficient option. If you feel this way but are happy with your company provided health care plan (assuming you have company provided healthcare) then I think you are inconsistent in your thinking.
Why does your company provide healthcare benefits to you for free? And is it really free? One may argue that companies choose to provide healthcare benefits to their employees due to competition for good employees. If they do not provide the benefits then they will lose their best employees to their competitors that do provide healthcare benefits. If this is the real reason then would it not be more competitive for them to give you the money instead (i.e. higher pay equivalent to the amount they would have to pay for your healthcare insurance). Would you not rather have higher pay and have the options on how to spend the extra money however your want (on healthcare or not on healthcare)? The fact that companies in general do not pay you the extra money and employees do not demand the money suggests the following:
1) Companies realize that it is beneficial to their bottom line to have healthy employees. The last thing they want is having their valuable employees absent from work due to illness more often than is necessary.
2) Employees inherently know that the company as a group would be able to negotiate a better healthcare insurance policy than they can individually.
3) Company "provided" healthcare benefit is not "free". You in fact pay for it by having your employer deducting the cost from your paycheck.
I think some of the people who are against the idea of a universal health care system may feel this way because they do not like the idea of having the government taking more money (i.e. tax) from their paycheck to pay for it. They believe that a free market system where you decide how to spend your money on healthcare is a better and more efficient option. If you feel this way but are happy with your company provided health care plan (assuming you have company provided healthcare) then I think you are inconsistent in your thinking.
Why does your company provide healthcare benefits to you for free? And is it really free? One may argue that companies choose to provide healthcare benefits to their employees due to competition for good employees. If they do not provide the benefits then they will lose their best employees to their competitors that do provide healthcare benefits. If this is the real reason then would it not be more competitive for them to give you the money instead (i.e. higher pay equivalent to the amount they would have to pay for your healthcare insurance). Would you not rather have higher pay and have the options on how to spend the extra money however your want (on healthcare or not on healthcare)? The fact that companies in general do not pay you the extra money and employees do not demand the money suggests the following:
1) Companies realize that it is beneficial to their bottom line to have healthy employees. The last thing they want is having their valuable employees absent from work due to illness more often than is necessary.
2) Employees inherently know that the company as a group would be able to negotiate a better healthcare insurance policy than they can individually.
3) Company "provided" healthcare benefit is not "free". You in fact pay for it by having your employer deducting the cost from your paycheck.
This is how important the healthcare argument really is.
In 1920 the average person in the US that made it past the age of 60 died at the age of 75.
In 2006 the average fully covered US person that made it past the age of 60 died at the age of 77.
If you are not covered and a drug induced two years during your mid seventies really sounds that exciting then just save your damn money.
Guess what percent of people make it to 60 after surviving birth without counting suicide or risk taking behavior without healthcare? Around 98.5%. With healthcare- 98.8%.
It's like playing just one round of russian roulette with 500 people. If your that big of a puss that you think you will be the person that is actually shot out of 500 people then get healthcare.
The healthcare industry has convinced EVERYONE that they will be that one damn person.
Maybe once both sides realize healthcare is over hyped to the point of insanity they will be able to grasp the reality.
The ability of an industry convincing 100% of it's customers that they will need the product when only a small minority actually need the product is one of the most hilarious things in our society.
Soon everyone will be buying into miracle diet products and herbal remedies that have been studied for about a day, wait a minute...
In 1920 the average person in the US that made it past the age of 60 died at the age of 75.
In 2006 the average fully covered US person that made it past the age of 60 died at the age of 77.
If you are not covered and a drug induced two years during your mid seventies really sounds that exciting then just save your damn money.
Guess what percent of people make it to 60 after surviving birth without counting suicide or risk taking behavior without healthcare? Around 98.5%. With healthcare- 98.8%.
It's like playing just one round of russian roulette with 500 people. If your that big of a puss that you think you will be the person that is actually shot out of 500 people then get healthcare.
The healthcare industry has convinced EVERYONE that they will be that one damn person.
Maybe once both sides realize healthcare is over hyped to the point of insanity they will be able to grasp the reality.
The ability of an industry convincing 100% of it's customers that they will need the product when only a small minority actually need the product is one of the most hilarious things in our society.
Soon everyone will be buying into miracle diet products and herbal remedies that have been studied for about a day, wait a minute...