Socialised health care in Canada poll

Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

if one was adorned in blinders frostie, it was you, i never said that 'all facets' of health care in canada could be obtained in the private sector, or any derivation thereof... what i said was that PRIVATE HEALTH CARE IS AVAILABLE IN CANADA.... which is true... the overwhelming majority of medical needs can indeed be met on a private basis if one so chooses...

a strawman argument is one in which there is an argument made against a point that was never made... which is what you have done above...
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It is a far step from acknowledging private health care exists and then stating that the overwhelming majority of medical needs can be met through the private system. This is simply not true, not even close.

The blinders comment was aimed at your non-sensical post that had little to nothing to do with what I was trying to say. It is obvious your passionate about the Canadian health care system, maybe it is time to take a step back and look at things with a wider perspective.
 
Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

which post was it that led you to say i had on ''blinders''??

i have a nurse in laval, qc on the phone right now who's telling me that most medical services are available via private clinics, specifically which services can vary from province to province... she you can easily verify this... she's saying that all of the common ones which typically have the long waiting lists that we're talking about here are available via private clinics, yet sometimes it can be done even sooner by way of the us.... sorry, but i see a canadian nurse's opinion as more credible than yours...

also, i'm not 'passionate' about the canadian health care system... or any healthcare system for that matter... that's not the sort of thing i'd be passionate about... as an american, who's spent time in canada, i think canada does a better job of keeping it's citizens healthy than the usa does, also i think that life expectancy, which is longer in canada, is a reasonable indicator of health care... and ppl live longer in canada....no getting around that one.... then again, my experience with canada has been rather brief so far and i'm open to suggestion, this is just my honest perspective so far...
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Most now? Your last post said "vast majority" or some similar bull. So you are not Canadian but seem to think you may speak with authority on the subject? I should have suspected as much seeing as you really have no clue about what you are talking about.
 
<i>IMO, the best system is a private health care system where insurance companies are not regulated by the state and must provide a variety of policies that people want to gain customers. </i>

Unless your regulate the insurance companies, there is no incentive for them to give coverage for someone with cancer, MS etc at affordable rates.

And even if they do give coverage to these people, they often times increase the price tag so much that it is no longer affordable for the recipient.

I have seen enough of our system to know that it doesn't work. Unless of course you have a job or you are young. A lot of people are now finding out how bad our system is as we have more and more people being laid off. COBRA will run out and they will find out how enjoyable it is to apply for individual health insurance in the US.

We can easily do better.
 
Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

. what about you? you are presumably a dual citizen medical professional since you apparently can speak with such authority right?
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No, I am from a foreign country and just phoned someone from Canada to get my information.

First off I'm Canadian. My mother is a nurse, my sister is a lab technician, my mother in law is a lab technician, my sister in law is a nurse, I have 2 cousins that are MDs, many other cousins that are in nursing, 6/9 of my mother's siblings are/were nurses, my wife works at a hospital in their accounting department, I live across the street from a major hospital, some people very close to me have spent very long periods of time being cared for in local hospitals....so this> you phoning some random nurse in Quebec.
 
Quote from Mom0/pH0x:

i think canada does a better job of keeping it's citizens healthy than the usa does, also i think that life expectancy, which is longer in canada, is a reasonable indicator of health care... and ppl live longer in canada....no getting around that one
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Life expectancy is not necessarily a good indicator of a health care system. Diets and lifestyle play a much larger role. Not to mention cigarettes are and have been fairly expensive in Canada, although the gap is closing quickly in the states.
 
I try to read each and every post before commenting in a thread. But after reading ribs post I just couldn't help but skip to the end to post.

Rib how in the world can you say that healthcare is a human right?

I am sorry for this but you are not only wrong your also stupid.

If for whatever reason people stopped studying medicine according to your ideal we would ave to force someone to study to become a doctor so that they could treat the sick.

Because if it is a right then the government has the obligation to uphold and provide that right.

So now the government is charged with forcing some government employee to learn medicine and tend to the sick.

Health care is so far from a right that I can only imagine you have been stung by the loss of a loved one or something that causes you to hold a huge resentment towards the healthcare industry.

I also am frustrated with healthcare but at least I can see it certainly is a privilege for me to benefit from the education and practice of another man who spent his own time and money learning a trade that can be a service to me when I am in need.

I feel that the root of the healthcare problem is insurance. Why oh why is healthcare tied to insurance?

Also healthcare should in no way be tied to employment.

Why can't we have a free market health care system with a program similar to food stamps for the poor?

If the statistic about 40% going to lawyers and insurance is correct there is the first 40% savings right off the bat.

Anyhow back to the point HEALTHCARE IS NOT A RIGHT NEVER WAS NEVER WILL BE.
 
Quote from dsss27:

http://www.healthtower.us/iatrogenia-disgusting.html
Iatrogenic Disease has no borders, and is exacerbated with more bureaucracy.
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But is it exacerbated by more controls and oversight ? (Which you might choose to call bureaucracy).

Where profit is directly involved, there is always a tendency towards over servicing.

Here is a little bit of news that I came across today. Not about health care, but about crime and punishment, but there is a clear message to be had -

"Two judges have pleaded guilty to accepting more than $US2.6 million ($3.9 million) from a private youth detention centre in Pennsylvania in return for giving hundreds of youths and teenagers long sentences.

"Judges Mark Ciavarella and Michael Conahan of the Court of Common Pleas in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania, entered plea agreements in federal court in Scranton admitting that they took payoffs from PA Childcare and a sister company, Western PA Childcare, between 2003 and 2006."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/02/13/2490498.htm

By any measure this is utterly disgraceful.
 
Quote from 151:

I try to read each and every post before commenting in a thread. But after reading ribs post I just couldn't help but skip to the end to post.

Rib how in the world can you say that healthcare is a human right?

I am sorry for this but you are not only wrong your also stupid.

If for whatever reason people stopped studying medicine according to your ideal we would ave to force someone to study to become a doctor so that they could treat the sick.

Because if it is a right then the government has the obligation to uphold and provide that right.

So now the government is charged with forcing some government employee to learn medicine and tend to the sick.

Health care is so far from a right that I can only imagine you have been stung by the loss of a loved one or something that causes you to hold a huge resentment towards the healthcare industry.

I also am frustrated with healthcare but at least I can see it certainly is a privilege for me to benefit from the education and practice of another man who spent his own time and money learning a trade that can be a service to me when I am in need.

I feel that the root of the healthcare problem is insurance. Why oh why is healthcare tied to insurance?

Also healthcare should in no way be tied to employment.

Why can't we have a free market health care system with a program similar to food stamps for the poor?

If the statistic about 40% going to lawyers and insurance is correct there is the first 40% savings right off the bat.

Anyhow back to the point HEALTHCARE IS NOT A RIGHT NEVER WAS NEVER WILL BE.
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you make theoretical points that seem valid but are not

we don't live in hypothetical society

we live in organized sophisticated society

there are basic human needs for life

FOOD

SHELTER

SAFETY

HEALTH

these are basic, without these 4 we have no society, we have no internet, we have no stock market

nothing
 
Ribs I am glad you seem to have not taken offense to my post. I agree about your thoughs on the society in wich we live. However I cannot see how that changes the fact that healthcare is not a right that each and every human is born with.

It could possibly be written into law that healthcare was a right for American citizens but so far it has not.

I also do not see how it could be, because of the "what if no one wants to be a doctor" problem.
 
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