Socialised health care in Canada poll

[Specterx]

Quote from Ribs:

you just don't understand

there are things in this world where monetary value can not be applied

for example.......AIR we breathe

basic human right not to die if we can help it

someone ought to pay me for teaching you folks

Actually, monetary value can and must be applied. The supply of oxygen isn't limited, but the supply of trained doctors, hospitals, medical equipment, medicines, MRI machines etc. is very much limited.

The supply must be rationed somehow. It can either be rationed based on your ability to pay, or we can have government functionaries telling you where to stand in line. Either way, you can't get something for nothing.

It's just the same old story, better to be rich in the USA, better to be poor in Europe/Canada.

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from ByLoSellHi:

There are more CAT Scan and MRI machines in Oakland County, Michigan, than there are in ALL of Canada. There are 30 million Canadians, and 1.4 million people in Oakland County, Michigan.

That is because of the American style of health care. The fact that it is a business and they want their "customers" to keep coming back for unnecessary procedures. It has nothing to do with the inadequecy of the Canadian system.

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from JOSEF:


Our system is very much imperfect. To say it can't be fixed is to deny reality.

Why would we only have to import the Canadian system? Why couldn't we take the best of the American/Swedish/French/etc system and truly enact something that is the envy of the world?

Very good point.

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from Specterx:

You should read Coronary. Over a five-year period, two doctors performed over a thousand unnecessary coronary bypass surgeries. Anything to help the bottom line...

Sad and disgusting yet hardly suprising. The way the system is setup motivates this type of unethical behavious.

 

[Vespasian]

Quote from Banff01:

Please, explain a bit more about your reasons (407 vs 401).

The 407 is a paid highway (privately owned) that runs parallel to the free government highway the 401(Canada's largest busiest Highway).

Those people in a hurry or that have the money take it when they need it and those that don't want to pay still get to use the free government highway.

It's fast, never a traffic jam and it's in mint condition with no pot holes and the snow is always cleared quickly.

In actuality it makes the Government one better because it alleviates a lot of traffic from the free system.

That's exactly what private hospitals in Canada would do as well.

Didn't mean to insult you by calling you a puppet, it just pisses me off to no end when politicians use this card to get elected and the people all suffer needlessly.

 

[Banff01]

It's sad to see how misinformed a lot of the Americans are about the Canadian health care system. Must the billions of dollars spent on propaganda by the private health care companies milking the system scared shitless that the masses finaly say they've had enough and cut the flow of money.

The argument that things will get easier for the public system if you bring in private health care providers does not make much sense either. Those who have the money are already skipping the wait lists and getting their surgeries done in the US. The rest simply does not have the money anyway. Canadian health care system needs changes and maybe some small private segment added but definitelly nothing major.

 

[Banff01]

Quote from Vespasian:

The 407 is a paid highway (privately owned) that runs parallel to the free government highway the 401.

Those people in a hurry or that have the money take it when they need it and those that don't want to pay still get to use the free government highway.

It's fast, never a traffic jam and it's in mint condition with no pot holes and the snow is always cleared quickly.

In actuality it makes the Government one better because it alleviates a lot of traffic from the free system.

That's exactly what private hospitals in Canada would do as well.

Didn't mean to insult you by calling you a puppet, it just pisses me off to no end when politicians use this card to get elected and the people all suffer needlessly.

I agree that changes are needed I'm just saying that it needs to be done very carefully. I would just hate to see the system to slowly turn into something like what they have in the US overtime. That would be a mistake of collosal proportions. Believe me I am just as pissed off as you by seeing people suffer on the waiting lists. I absolutelly despise our politicians for not doing anything about it.

 

[rozar s'macco]

I'm Canadian.
A recent anecdote for what it's worth.

My father went to the ER with chest pain on Jan.25. He was admitted, had an angiogram on the 28th, and a triple-bypass on the 29th. He was discharged on Feb. 3rd.

Cost out of pocket $0.

 

[Kassz007]

Quote from rozar s'macco:

I'm Canadian.
A recent anecdote for what it's worth.

My father went to the ER with chest pain on Jan.25. He was admitted, had an angiogram on the 28th, and a triple-bypass on the 29th. He was discharged on Feb. 3rd.

Cost out of pocket $0.

Very impressive. Shows the true potential of the Canadian system when all cylinders are firing. May I ask where your father was treated?

 

[truehawk]

Quote from Specterx:

You should read Coronary. Over a five-year period, two doctors performed over a thousand unnecessary coronary bypass surgeries. Anything to help the bottom line...

I also think that many of the latest/most expensive tests, imaging procedures etc. that we use here are either unnecessary or not cost-effective. I read that somebody authored a computer program that asked patients a series of questions about their symptoms. The program was slightly more accurate in diagnosing illnesses than human doctors.

That would be the diagnostic program written at the University of Washington.

Overtreated, which is based on the Dartmoth Health Study is also a recommended read.

Only the number of Family Practice Drs correlates with positive outcomes.
Specialists correlate with more procedures but also greater morbidity and mortality.