So much for Global Warming

Quote from jficquette:

Again, you just don't seem to undertand the difference between Natural Born and US Citizen.

John
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Here is my attempt...

From the constitution.
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec1

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.


Sounds like 'or a citizen' is not 'and a citizen' so in fact he is fine. Also, 'At the time of the adoption of this constitution' may imply the the time last amendment of the constitution was ratified. Last amendment was ratified in 1992. So I'm sure someone could argue he was a citizen effective 1992 successfully and have their way.
 
Quote from jficquette:

Here is the problem:

"This was clarified by the Civil Rights Act of April 9, 1866, which provided that 'All persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power are declared to be citizens of the United States.'"

Obama was born subject to a foreign power because his father was a british subject. This was due to the British Nationality Act of 1948. The US stopped reconginzing that act in 1963. Two years after Obama was born.

Again, you just don't seem to undertand the difference between Natural Born and US Citizen.

John
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Are you saying that if a child is born here to parents that are non-US citizens are not natural born? This is not true. "Not subject to any foreign power" applies to diplomats, so if the British ambassador to the US has a baby in the US then the baby is not an US citizen.
Is Colin Powell a natural born citizen? You know Colin Powell, that black guy that served in the military and was the Joint Chief of Staffs and the secretary of state. Is he eligible to run for president? He was born to Jamaican immigrants in NY.
 
Quote from jficquette:

Here is the problem:

"This was clarified by the Civil Rights Act of April 9, 1866, which provided that 'All persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power are declared to be citizens of the United States.'"

Obama was born subject to a foreign power because his father was a british subject. This was due to the British Nationality Act of 1948. The US stopped reconginzing that act in 1963. Two years after Obama was born.

There is no evidence Obama was born in Hawaii. No hospital records exist. The annoucment of his birth in a paper that some point too was an annoucment put there by his mother. Similar to when people annouce engagements, weddings etc.

Here is another problem with it:

US Law very clearly states: '. . . If only one parent is a U.S. Citizen at the time of one's birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for minimum ten years, five of which must be after the age of 16.' Barack Obama's father was not a U.S. Citizen is a fact.

His mother was only 18 so she could not have lived 5 years pass her 16th birthday in the US.


Again, you just don't seem to understand the difference between Natural Born and US Citizen.

John
More...

Good use of the Edit button. It seems that you don't even read the links that you post here. Typical right-wing nut job that can't think for oneself. So if someone tries to buy prescription medicine without a prescription, is that illegal and should that person be in jail?

The stuff that you added later on regarding the mother's age applies if a child is born outside the US. As far as we know he was born in Hawaii, so NOTHING matters.
 
Quote from eminitrader007:

Good use of the Edit button. It seems that you don't even read the links that you post here. Typical right-wing nut job that can't think for oneself. So if someone tries to buy prescription medicine without a prescription, is that illegal and should that person be in jail?

The stuff that you added later on regarding the mother's age applies if a child is born outside the US. As far as we know he was born in Hawaii, so NOTHING matters.
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All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_Clause


He was born in Hawaii. His parents are not foreign diplomats. He is a natural born citizen. Hawaii was a state when he was born.

And as we clearly defined below, you only need to be a citizen.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.


Where is this natural born citizen crap coming from? Is there an amendment I'm missing. That is an OR I see - that makes a mere "citizen" enough.


Hmmm. you lose - buy some alcoa - the stock should go up with all the tinfoil you've been buying lately:

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/120808zor.pdf
 
Quote from scriabinop23:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_Clause


He was born in Hawaii. His parents are not foreign diplomats. He is a natural born citizen. Hawaii was a state when he was born.

And as we clearly defined below, you only need to be a citizen.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.


Where is this natural born citizen crap coming from? Is there an amendment I'm missing. That is an OR I see - that makes a mere "citizen" enough.


Hmmm. you lose - buy some alcoa - the stock should go up with all the tinfoil you've been buying lately:

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/120808zor.pdf
More...


I know you don't "this natural born citizen crap" or else you wouldn't keep making a fool out of yourself.

I posted the links for you dumbass. Can't you read?
 
a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution

Unless a person was alive in 1787/88 when the constitution was ratified, this will not apply. Obviously those founding fathers were not natural born citizens, we ain't a country yet???????

Thus the insertion of that phrase, for everyone else - they must be Natural born, or were citizens when the constitution was written.

Not even going to get into the Obama debate, but your reading it WRONG.

Quote from scriabinop23:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_Clause


He was born in Hawaii. His parents are not foreign diplomats. He is a natural born citizen. Hawaii was a state when he was born.

And as we clearly defined below, you only need to be a citizen.

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.


Where is this natural born citizen crap coming from? Is there an amendment I'm missing. That is an OR I see - that makes a mere "citizen" enough.


Hmmm. you lose - buy some alcoa - the stock should go up with all the tinfoil you've been buying lately:

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/orders/courtorders/120808zor.pdf
More...
 
Quote from jficquette:

I know you don't "this natural born citizen crap" or else you wouldn't keep making a fool out of yourself.

I posted the links for you dumbass. Can't you read?
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The majority opinion by Justice Horace Gray in United States v. Wong Kim Ark did not explicitly disagree with this comment by Fuller and Harlan, and instead merely observed that: "The constitution nowhere defines the meaning of these words ["citizen" and "natural born citizen"], either by way of inclusion or of exclusion, except in so far as this is done by the affirmative declaration that 'all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States.

read that again you dumbass, the constitution does not define the meaning of citizen and natural born citizen..as per your link.
 
Quote from Wallet:

a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution

Unless a person was alive in 1787/88 when the constitution was ratified, this will not apply. Obviously those founding fathers were not natural born citizens, we ain't a country yet???????

Thus the insertion of that phrase, for everyone else - they must be Natural born, or were citizens when the constitution was written.

Not even going to get into the Obama debate, but your reading it WRONG.
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1) Every time the constitution is amended, it could be flexibly argued 'this constitution is adopted'. That last happened in 92.

2) This isn't biblical interpretation. It is literal, and natural born citizen OR citizen is the language, not "only natural born" or "natural born and US citizen."

It is simple.

Now, if he is Kenyan born, then it is stickier... but the powers that be are happy to present a Hawaiian birth certificate and accept it.

Let's say he was a Kenyan born -


Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html


So one could argue that upon Obama's mother's 19th birthday her US citizenship would be transmitted formally to her child (even if born in Kenya). Since the constitution was last amended in 92, Obama would have been a US citizen at that time.

Show me where it is explicitly stated that Obama must be 'born' a US citizen? He is a US citizen effective when his mother has been a US citizen for 5 years after her 14th birthday (considering she was born a US citizen). Literally 3 months after his birth according to this law, Obama is a US citizen. When he obtained his first passport, the government acknowledged his citizenship.
 
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