About 9 months ago I was talking to a friend who is a very good trader in the commodities market. I was talking to him about various "systems" and whatnot. Ken Roberts and his "Worlds Most Powerful Money making system" came up. We had both bought into it earlier in our careers and lost, but we had different perspectives about him. My thought was that he is selling something that won't work, and I dont like him much. My friends thought was, before I read his direct mail piece I had no idea what I wanted to do. I did loose a lot of money following his methods and advise, however, I have gone on to make much much more than I could have doing anything else, so Im grateful to Ken. I bring this up not to defend anyone, but just for some perspective I suppose.
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Snake oil marketing on Elitetrader
- Thread starter candletrader
- Start date
Candle, good thread I have to agree with Limbo though the war has gotten to you, stop the B52 madness...
Bundlemaker, sorry but 10 K for a trading education from somebody you can't check trading records over the long term it's sounds stupid, anyway you can't just copy somebody else's style, there is no easy way to success. You can't compare this to a college education, first of all and this is just my opinion many colleges programs are just overrated, you pay too much for what you actually get but at least and this is the value of a college education you are supposed to get a decent job when you get out. No training, seminar, tape or book can assure you of being a profitable trader.
Also regarding the legitimacy of vendors, I believe the reason why even some great traders end up offering services is that at some point in their career they need to diversify their sources of income, let's face it trading is a very tough business and it's good to have money coming in every month from other sources than just trading .
Bundlemaker, sorry but 10 K for a trading education from somebody you can't check trading records over the long term it's sounds stupid, anyway you can't just copy somebody else's style, there is no easy way to success. You can't compare this to a college education, first of all and this is just my opinion many colleges programs are just overrated, you pay too much for what you actually get but at least and this is the value of a college education you are supposed to get a decent job when you get out. No training, seminar, tape or book can assure you of being a profitable trader.
Also regarding the legitimacy of vendors, I believe the reason why even some great traders end up offering services is that at some point in their career they need to diversify their sources of income, let's face it trading is a very tough business and it's good to have money coming in every month from other sources than just trading .
no joke? if i'm rich already trading is easy? you mean if i dont need the money this is easy? gee i wondered Y trading was so easy 4 me...now i no. you guys R so smart. i am impressed
Originally posted by oolarinm
kicking,
that's what i have been trying to get across , i.e trading is easy if you have other income source
oolarinm,
cmon, your serious with that statement??? I mean yeah it can be easier psycologoicaly not to have to pull your food out evry week, but to say it is easy just because you have another income source sounds rediculous to me...
I have been in this game for quite a few years and I do not have enough fingers and toes to fill up the # of wealthy lawyers, doctors, engineers, MBA's, etc. that have lost a ton of money playing this game...
Maybe a better statement would be "Trading CAN be easier if you have another income source"
PEACE and good trading,
Commisso
IMO a theoretical trading education should cost no more than $300. It would involve digesting what is available for free on the internet, the material available in a reasonably well-stocked public library and the purchase of a few carefully selected books.
It would also involve the investment of a few hundred hours of time in studying these materials and in paper trading to find out what works for you.
Then spend about 6-8 weeks taking the free trials at the various chatrooms. This will allow you to see how participants of various levels of expertise actually trade and you can learn from their successes and failures. Don't trade their picks, just study them.
Then you are ready to try trading. However, by now, 99% of you have failed the impatience test. I did, but I had nobody to tell me differently. Start trading 100 shares or less positions, one position at a time, using IB as broker. Analyse each trade carefully after it is complete to see what reasonably would have made it better. Do this for three months. By then you should have a good idea whether you are cut out for trading or not. If you show promise, a month or two in a good chatroom may be in order to fine tune your execution skills. If you don't show much promise, forget about it and find other things to do with your life.
Most people see chatrooms or advisory services as a shortcut to avoid the investment of study time and the hours of tedium trading small positions that I have described above. They aren't.
You would expect to spend hundreds of hours learning any other difficult skill, starting from a theoretical basis and moving to the practical implementation of the theory. Trading is no different.
It took me seven months of very careful trading and the investment of countless hours of study and analysis to get a grip on it and on the basis of academic and career achievement a lot of people have considered me to be a very smart guy. Please excuse this apparent boast. I only offer it to indicate that successful trading really is very hard.
It would also involve the investment of a few hundred hours of time in studying these materials and in paper trading to find out what works for you.
Then spend about 6-8 weeks taking the free trials at the various chatrooms. This will allow you to see how participants of various levels of expertise actually trade and you can learn from their successes and failures. Don't trade their picks, just study them.
Then you are ready to try trading. However, by now, 99% of you have failed the impatience test. I did, but I had nobody to tell me differently. Start trading 100 shares or less positions, one position at a time, using IB as broker. Analyse each trade carefully after it is complete to see what reasonably would have made it better. Do this for three months. By then you should have a good idea whether you are cut out for trading or not. If you show promise, a month or two in a good chatroom may be in order to fine tune your execution skills. If you don't show much promise, forget about it and find other things to do with your life.
Most people see chatrooms or advisory services as a shortcut to avoid the investment of study time and the hours of tedium trading small positions that I have described above. They aren't.
You would expect to spend hundreds of hours learning any other difficult skill, starting from a theoretical basis and moving to the practical implementation of the theory. Trading is no different.
It took me seven months of very careful trading and the investment of countless hours of study and analysis to get a grip on it and on the basis of academic and career achievement a lot of people have considered me to be a very smart guy. Please excuse this apparent boast. I only offer it to indicate that successful trading really is very hard.
Snake oil? Perhaps, but there is one thing about the substance â itâs oily, and smells like snake!
I do not like to see anyone taken, nor do I approve of dishonesty or deceit. But at some point, the gullible must share in the blame. When a âvendorâ offers to revile secrets unknown to 99% of the other market participants, or virtually guarantees unimaginable riches, and all for a fist full of dollars is it not reasonable to see a red light go off?
Trading is the hardest endeavor I have ever attempted, but I will give you the secret to success right here and right now: Common Sense. Thatâs it. Thatâs the secret! Mix common sense in with some patients, discipline, and hard work, and youâve got it made.
Those who seek the Holy Grail, or a fail-proof system/method are all but assured heartache and disappointment. Those who chase after vendors offering anything that sounds like the above are lacking in common sense. Because 1) there is no such thing , and 2) if there was it would not be available to just anyone with a few dollars to spare.
By all means, expose the fakes, quacks, and snake oil salesmen, but it wonât put them out of business so long as people refuse to deal with reality. People who are in search of pie in the sky inevitably come home with a bottle of snake oil.
I do not like to see anyone taken, nor do I approve of dishonesty or deceit. But at some point, the gullible must share in the blame. When a âvendorâ offers to revile secrets unknown to 99% of the other market participants, or virtually guarantees unimaginable riches, and all for a fist full of dollars is it not reasonable to see a red light go off?
Trading is the hardest endeavor I have ever attempted, but I will give you the secret to success right here and right now: Common Sense. Thatâs it. Thatâs the secret! Mix common sense in with some patients, discipline, and hard work, and youâve got it made.
Those who seek the Holy Grail, or a fail-proof system/method are all but assured heartache and disappointment. Those who chase after vendors offering anything that sounds like the above are lacking in common sense. Because 1) there is no such thing , and 2) if there was it would not be available to just anyone with a few dollars to spare.
By all means, expose the fakes, quacks, and snake oil salesmen, but it wonât put them out of business so long as people refuse to deal with reality. People who are in search of pie in the sky inevitably come home with a bottle of snake oil.
Originally posted by Commisso
oolarinm,
cmon, your serious with that statement??? I mean yeah it can be easier psycologoicaly not to have to pull your food out evry week, but to say it is easy just because you have another income source sounds rediculous to me...
I have been in this game for quite a few years and I do not have enough fingers and toes to fill up the # of wealthy lawyers, doctors, engineers, MBA's, etc. that have lost a ton of money playing this game...
Maybe a better statement would be "Trading CAN be easier if you have another income source"
PEACE and good trading,
Commisso
1) yep i am serious , now the statement is not meant for everyone only those who are willing to do what it takes to be a good trader(i.e keep to the rules of trading etc). its funny how people keep blaming the market conditions for their poor results ,as you know it has nothing to do with the market.
2) I know alot of rich people that lost in the casino not because craps is difficult , but for some other reasons.
3) i agree Trading CAN be easier if you have another income source"
4) for those who are bored , sorry.
oh brother, he we go again...here comes three dozen posts about .. "yep, it's easier to lose money when you dont need it"... this FACT is so self-evident it borders on the absurd just to mention it.