SMB Capital / Keystone Trading

I think SMB is a crap firm. I interviewed for them, and the guy made it sound like he doesn't require a deposit before I went. During the interview he wanted the money badly, and told me "You must not be serious about the job if you're not willing to put up money, this is a career. You must have no goals to be a trader." When I said it would be difficult, and that I didn't really want to put up money, I'm takin ga lot of risk. He told me "You can find your own way out". He doesn't even bother being professional about it and saying "we have to think about you for this position" and walk me through, instead he just tells me I can find my own way out and leaves.

Even if they are good, I wouldn't want to deal with people like that. Also their rates aren't very competitive.
 
Quote from xysen:

I think SMB is a crap firm. I interviewed for them, and the guy made it sound like he doesn't require a deposit before I went. During the interview he wanted the money badly, and told me "You must not be serious about the job if you're not willing to put up money, this is a career. You must have no goals to be a trader." When I said it would be difficult, and that I didn't really want to put up money, I'm takin ga lot of risk. He told me "You can find your own way out". He doesn't even bother being professional about it and saying "we have to think about you for this position" and walk me through, instead he just tells me I can find my own way out and leaves.

Even if they are good, I wouldn't want to deal with people like that. Also their rates aren't very competitive.
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if the model is working....they wouldn't need your funds as badly..I guess their business model is tied into your capital...

I wonder if they counter partied all the trades of the newbies, if they would achieve profitable outcome, since most everyone looses...
 
was it s, m, or b that said this to you?

Quote from xysen:

I think SMB is a crap firm. I interviewed for them, and the guy made it sound like he doesn't require a deposit before I went. During the interview he wanted the money badly, and told me "You must not be serious about the job if you're not willing to put up money, this is a career. You must have no goals to be a trader." When I said it would be difficult, and that I didn't really want to put up money, I'm takin ga lot of risk. He told me "You can find your own way out". He doesn't even bother being professional about it and saying "we have to think about you for this position" and walk me through, instead he just tells me I can find my own way out and leaves.

Even if they are good, I wouldn't want to deal with people like that. Also their rates aren't very competitive.
More...
 
Wow, that is very unprofessional if it really happened. I don't understand why any serious trading firm would require money up front FROM employees.

Has anyone experienced such firms and tried to redeem their money deposits after a period of time with the firm? Is that even possible or would it be like in vegas after winning 5 million, you cash out and 10 goons jump you before you reach the cab?
 
capital deposits aren't too much to ask in this biz.

I mean this in the kindest way. Some shops don't operate on this model, like a swfit that just won't take your deposit to trade remote for example. Says nothing of the firm.

face it; you gotta be willing to have your money at risk either directly/indirectly to be in this business with the only justification for not doing so being your strat is so unique as to be serviced by a unique shop. Nobody is going to back you, draw you, then let you earn your way to glory and slowly raise your percentage cut to 90 and lower your coms to nothing while they risk everything. its all in the numbers, so you do the math and if your numbers aren't working out in favor of the firm, its not gonna happen (a guy that does a kbillion shares a day and is fully backed with 99 percent...trust me the numbers are working out)

"smb is just raping newbs with their fees and churning em!"

opening up shop, its not a damn atm machine. Its not like its just that easy to start your own group and be able to "churn them" and just print money for yourself. I mean, its not hard to churn folks but...what i'm saying is that firms have come and go over the years...all the time. and they took deposits....and they churned their newbs at least a little in the beginning.

they weren't printing money for themselves or their newbs; thats why they're all history now. (and no, the owners didn't just close up shop because they wanted to retire/they weren't all hit with reg issues/ ect bs. they just didn't make money)
 
0.0009orbust,

So by "this business" you mean prop shops (cash equity trading) right?

To be honest, do you believe in day trading with technicals? I don't know a single hedge fund or successful trader who has used purely technicals, the closest perhaps would be SAC but I don't want to comment on his strategies and how legit they are.

What is the max payout of a day trader that you know of? I think for the banks, top traders take bonus of 15-20 million and top hedge fund managers take as much a few hundred million. Not counting owners such as soros, simons etc who take close to a billion or more.
 
Quote from xysen:

I think SMB is a crap firm. I interviewed for them, and the guy made it sound like he doesn't require a deposit before I went. During the interview he wanted the money badly, and told me "You must not be serious about the job if you're not willing to put up money, this is a career. You must have no goals to be a trader." When I said it would be difficult, and that I didn't really want to put up money, I'm takin ga lot of risk. He told me "You can find your own way out". He doesn't even bother being professional about it and saying "we have to think about you for this position" and walk me through, instead he just tells me I can find my own way out and leaves.

Even if they are good, I wouldn't want to deal with people like that. Also their rates aren't very competitive.
More...

just read a pm stating this wasn't true..
 
We read some of the inaccurate and inappropriate posts about SMB Capital here and wanted to say a few things:

1) If you are interested in trading, please personally visit multiple desks and find the firm that is best FOR YOU. Unfortunately there is a ton of misinformation on these boards about us and I am sure other firms. We do not have the time to correct every item that is inaccurate, since we are busy enough trading and working with our traders. I will just say that if you are looking for a desk that offers: a) a great training program, b) a desk run by experienced and professional traders- who have traded their own money through many different markets, c) a desk that does whatever they can to help you succeed, d) a desk that offers competitive rates (rates that are adjusted as your volume increases), then you should visit SMB Capital. Form you own opinion about whether we might be a good fit FOR YOU.


2) Just to be clear, anyone who goes through our interview process learns that no one is offered a job during the first interview. Just to get an interview is a process. To get called back for a second interview is against the odds. To receive an invitation from our desk requires multiple interviews with numerous members from our desk and a references review. We only invite those who are a good fit for us and for whom we are a good fit. We only invite traders who we believe have an excellent chance of succeeding. And before anyone is ever given an invitation to join our desk we make our traders available for any of your questions.

3) There are people out there who do not believe in prop trading. They have concluded that working for a big firm is the only legitimate job on the Street. As someone who has traded my own money for the past decade, I respectfully disagree. And whenever I have gone to deposit a check of my trading profits no one has ever asked me whether I worked at a big firm before they cleared my funds. Some of our traders do not like the culture of a big firm. They would rather work in a non corporate environment. Our Head Trader graduated from Columbia, worked at Goldman for a few days and quit because he didn't want to work 100 hours a week for someone else. So he created his own black box for Forex. And then started trading with us. My partner graduated from Wharton and decided against investment banking. He did the math and calculated that that was not the best use of his time. Admittedly, some people cannot get a job at a big firm but really want to trade. Are they supposed to just give up? One of my favorite people on the Street had to beg his way into the firm where I started. He retired after 6 years trading. Or others do not want to share 90 percent of their profits with a big firm, they would rather keep more of what they earn. Many former NYSE specialists have visited us, learned of our deal, and commented, "Wow! That is a great deal!" Finally, some are just entrepreneurial and would rather work for themselves. I know I do.

4) I have never made a dime trading by name calling or spreading misinformation about anyone else. I have traded for over a decade and had never heard of ET until I discovered some cheap shots posted about us during a web search. Over the past two years we have spent all of our free time building an extensive, demanding and thoughtful training program for today's market and treated our traders like family. These posts about us are not only inaccurate but inappropriate. There are some really good prop firms on the Street. We are one of them.

Mike Bellafiore
SMB Capital, Partner
 
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