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SMB Capital $5k Training?
- Thread starter sobepehopeful
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It is important to correct inaccurate information about our firm so we thought we would respond. Having said that we do have a firm to run and are limited in our ability to respond to every inaccurate post that appears on ET. There are four issues that have been raised about SMB which we will clarify for the ET audience: 1) our trading style, 2) our trading experience, 3) our recruiting policy, 4) the opinions of our traders.
Before addressing these issues I would like to make one brief point about ET. I became aware of ET only after trading for about 10 years. I learned of ET when I did a quick Google search of "SMB Capital" and disappointingly caught some anonymous poster writing inaccurate information about our firm. Although disappointed my initial reaction was with exposure ("Wall Street Warriors", Trader Monthly) comes public comment. That is fine. Although my partner Mike believes and I agree that gross inaccuracies should be corrected when possible. So here we are.
Some may wonder why I had not stumbled upon ET during my first decade of trading. I suppose this is because my trading community "back in the day" were the other talented and successful traders on my prop trading floor. ET seems like it is designed for those who don't have such a network and primarily trade from home. A great idea by Barron to start such a community for like minded individuals. But I share the concerns of many ET posters that ET is littered with too many inaccuracies, insults, negativity, fake traders, and a few dishonest firms seeking to gain visibility with shill posters. Hopefully for the ET community the serious traders will muzzle those engaging in such activities, which do not help anyone become a better trader.
I would also like to share that prop trading is the best job in the world. As a graduate of Wharton, I had the opportunity to enter investment banking. As a successful trader I have also had the opportunity to join a hedge fund. I have always just prop traded. This is one of my best life decisions. Now as a partner, I have become friends with the partners of other excellent trading firms. Unfortunately, there are a few bad actors that should be avoided in the day trading world. But there are many good places to start your trading career. We are one of them. And when you develop the skills of a successful trader you can profit in any market, from anywhere, and for the rest of your trading career.
None of the reputable firms can help you unless you give trading everything you have. At the end of the trading day, I have nothing left. Like a great athlete, I have left everything I have in the trading arena. Often I rise from my trading station after the close and announce that I am now gonna grab some lunch. For those considering a career as a professional trader, are you willing to make this sacrifice?
Our Trading Style
My partner, Mike Bellafiore, recently signed a book deal with Wiley Publishing, tentatively titled "The Way of the Prop Trader", in which our trading style will be discussed in detail. I have written a few blogs on why we trade In Play stocks. I have pasted one of these blogs below "The Advantage of In Play Stocks".
The Advantage of In Play Stocks
April 29, 2009 9:04 pm sspencer Steve's Blogs, trading theory Edit
I have written extensively since our blog began regarding âIn Playâ stocks. During earnings season there are many In Play stocks to choose from each day. Traders should choose no more than two or three of these stocks each day to focus on. This is the case because you can make a lot more money trading one or two stocks well than trading many stocks poorly.
Prior to the start of earnings season I was trading FAZ almost every day. But I made it clear to our desk that once earnings season began my focus would change to stocks with fresh news. This is where a skilled traderâs edge exists. The increased order flow in stocks with fresh news create greater liquidity, intraday volatility, and great risk/reward setups that are EASILY recognizable.
During the past 7 trading days I was able to find a new In Play stock each day. My worst day during that period was finishing up over 2K. Certainly my trading skills played a large part in my success each day but a larger contributor to my success was proper stock selection. Some of the stocks I have traded recently include RIMM, AAPL, QCOM, AXP, GS, MS, and AMZN. Take a look at the chart of QCOM below from the day it released earnings. Even a novice trader would probably have crushed QCOM if they were aware of the resistance levels at 42.60/43. Take a look at the AMZN chart below. How difficult do you think it was to make money when it traded above prior resistance of 83? Not very.
Tomorrow I will trade V which released earnings after the close. I will twitter key levels before the market opens at 9:30. I will blog later in the day about how it traded during the Open and offer some advice for what to look for during the Close.
(to see the charts you need to click on the the following link http://www.smbtraining.com/blog/?p=546)
________
Our Trading Experience
As for our experience, Mike and I started trading in the mid 90's. We have traded our own accounts for well over a decade. We have successfully navigated the Asian Financial Crisis, the Tech Boom, the Internet Bubble, 9/11, and the recent near collapse of our banking system. On a personal note, I would add that Mike is one of the most consistently profitable traders I have seen over the past decade. I don't believe he has had a negative month since 2001. He also has become one of the top trading mentors in the country. In fact, he will be speaking to the traders at a very successful prop trading firm in another part of the country in a few weeks. Jeff Tomasulo, is a Senior Trader at SMB, and another excellent trader who has 13 years of trading experience. For those interested, Jeff has recently appeared on CNBC's Fast Money. He has been scheduled to appear twice this week on CNBC. Our Head Trader, Gilbert Mendez, graduated with an engineering degree from Columbia University, and is one of the better young intraday traders on the Street.
SMB Recruiting
Our recruiting policy admittedly can cause some confusion. This is mostly because SMB owns different entities. There is SMB Capital, our prop desk in NYC. And then last year we created SMB Remote Training, where the extensive training our prop desk receives is offered to the public for a fee.
Also, there are different groups who we recruit: recent college graduates, experienced traders, and transitioning professionals (those in another occupation but who really want to trade). Recent college graduates do not pay for training and trade firm capital. We have hired nine recent college graduates for our June class. Transitioning professionals, those who are financially secure and wish to trade professionally, are asked to pay for our training program. Those with a demonstrable history of day trading success do not pay for training, are not asked to go through training, and trade firm capital.
Just for the sake of clarification, a few have contacted us claiming to be successful traders and then failed to produce their trading records. These individuals were either rejected or invited with the stipulation that they go through our training. Unfortunately, some dissatisfied with these options then opted to post negative comments about SMB in response. Two such individuals are present in this thread.
The Opinions of SMB Traders
For those who wish to trade for our prop desk, SMB Capital, there are three rounds of interviews. During the last round, you will watch us teach and review some trading video. A host, who trades on our desk, is assigned to you. You can ask your host anything you would like, particularly their opinion of our training. We spend a great deal of time working with our new traders. We will not work with anyone who does not value what we offer, commit to surviving the learning curve, and embrace the hard work the market will demand from them.
The opinions of those who have completed SMB Remote Training can be found on our training website under Testimonials. Our traders are taught to focus on improving their trading everyday. Searching forums for posts from anonymous traders will not make them a better trader. Defending the firm will not improve their trading. So you will not find our traders here.
For those who are new to trading I would encourage you to do your own due diligence about a trading firm. Go and visit. Talk with a firm's traders and their partners. Do not form an opinion on a firm based upon an anonymous poster from a trading forum. SMB is recognized for its outstanding intraday training program. Decide for yourself which is the best firm for you.
Steven Spencer
Partner
SMB Capital
Before addressing these issues I would like to make one brief point about ET. I became aware of ET only after trading for about 10 years. I learned of ET when I did a quick Google search of "SMB Capital" and disappointingly caught some anonymous poster writing inaccurate information about our firm. Although disappointed my initial reaction was with exposure ("Wall Street Warriors", Trader Monthly) comes public comment. That is fine. Although my partner Mike believes and I agree that gross inaccuracies should be corrected when possible. So here we are.
Some may wonder why I had not stumbled upon ET during my first decade of trading. I suppose this is because my trading community "back in the day" were the other talented and successful traders on my prop trading floor. ET seems like it is designed for those who don't have such a network and primarily trade from home. A great idea by Barron to start such a community for like minded individuals. But I share the concerns of many ET posters that ET is littered with too many inaccuracies, insults, negativity, fake traders, and a few dishonest firms seeking to gain visibility with shill posters. Hopefully for the ET community the serious traders will muzzle those engaging in such activities, which do not help anyone become a better trader.
I would also like to share that prop trading is the best job in the world. As a graduate of Wharton, I had the opportunity to enter investment banking. As a successful trader I have also had the opportunity to join a hedge fund. I have always just prop traded. This is one of my best life decisions. Now as a partner, I have become friends with the partners of other excellent trading firms. Unfortunately, there are a few bad actors that should be avoided in the day trading world. But there are many good places to start your trading career. We are one of them. And when you develop the skills of a successful trader you can profit in any market, from anywhere, and for the rest of your trading career.
None of the reputable firms can help you unless you give trading everything you have. At the end of the trading day, I have nothing left. Like a great athlete, I have left everything I have in the trading arena. Often I rise from my trading station after the close and announce that I am now gonna grab some lunch. For those considering a career as a professional trader, are you willing to make this sacrifice?
Our Trading Style
My partner, Mike Bellafiore, recently signed a book deal with Wiley Publishing, tentatively titled "The Way of the Prop Trader", in which our trading style will be discussed in detail. I have written a few blogs on why we trade In Play stocks. I have pasted one of these blogs below "The Advantage of In Play Stocks".
The Advantage of In Play Stocks
April 29, 2009 9:04 pm sspencer Steve's Blogs, trading theory Edit
I have written extensively since our blog began regarding âIn Playâ stocks. During earnings season there are many In Play stocks to choose from each day. Traders should choose no more than two or three of these stocks each day to focus on. This is the case because you can make a lot more money trading one or two stocks well than trading many stocks poorly.
Prior to the start of earnings season I was trading FAZ almost every day. But I made it clear to our desk that once earnings season began my focus would change to stocks with fresh news. This is where a skilled traderâs edge exists. The increased order flow in stocks with fresh news create greater liquidity, intraday volatility, and great risk/reward setups that are EASILY recognizable.
During the past 7 trading days I was able to find a new In Play stock each day. My worst day during that period was finishing up over 2K. Certainly my trading skills played a large part in my success each day but a larger contributor to my success was proper stock selection. Some of the stocks I have traded recently include RIMM, AAPL, QCOM, AXP, GS, MS, and AMZN. Take a look at the chart of QCOM below from the day it released earnings. Even a novice trader would probably have crushed QCOM if they were aware of the resistance levels at 42.60/43. Take a look at the AMZN chart below. How difficult do you think it was to make money when it traded above prior resistance of 83? Not very.
Tomorrow I will trade V which released earnings after the close. I will twitter key levels before the market opens at 9:30. I will blog later in the day about how it traded during the Open and offer some advice for what to look for during the Close.
(to see the charts you need to click on the the following link http://www.smbtraining.com/blog/?p=546)
________
Our Trading Experience
As for our experience, Mike and I started trading in the mid 90's. We have traded our own accounts for well over a decade. We have successfully navigated the Asian Financial Crisis, the Tech Boom, the Internet Bubble, 9/11, and the recent near collapse of our banking system. On a personal note, I would add that Mike is one of the most consistently profitable traders I have seen over the past decade. I don't believe he has had a negative month since 2001. He also has become one of the top trading mentors in the country. In fact, he will be speaking to the traders at a very successful prop trading firm in another part of the country in a few weeks. Jeff Tomasulo, is a Senior Trader at SMB, and another excellent trader who has 13 years of trading experience. For those interested, Jeff has recently appeared on CNBC's Fast Money. He has been scheduled to appear twice this week on CNBC. Our Head Trader, Gilbert Mendez, graduated with an engineering degree from Columbia University, and is one of the better young intraday traders on the Street.
SMB Recruiting
Our recruiting policy admittedly can cause some confusion. This is mostly because SMB owns different entities. There is SMB Capital, our prop desk in NYC. And then last year we created SMB Remote Training, where the extensive training our prop desk receives is offered to the public for a fee.
Also, there are different groups who we recruit: recent college graduates, experienced traders, and transitioning professionals (those in another occupation but who really want to trade). Recent college graduates do not pay for training and trade firm capital. We have hired nine recent college graduates for our June class. Transitioning professionals, those who are financially secure and wish to trade professionally, are asked to pay for our training program. Those with a demonstrable history of day trading success do not pay for training, are not asked to go through training, and trade firm capital.
Just for the sake of clarification, a few have contacted us claiming to be successful traders and then failed to produce their trading records. These individuals were either rejected or invited with the stipulation that they go through our training. Unfortunately, some dissatisfied with these options then opted to post negative comments about SMB in response. Two such individuals are present in this thread.
The Opinions of SMB Traders
For those who wish to trade for our prop desk, SMB Capital, there are three rounds of interviews. During the last round, you will watch us teach and review some trading video. A host, who trades on our desk, is assigned to you. You can ask your host anything you would like, particularly their opinion of our training. We spend a great deal of time working with our new traders. We will not work with anyone who does not value what we offer, commit to surviving the learning curve, and embrace the hard work the market will demand from them.
The opinions of those who have completed SMB Remote Training can be found on our training website under Testimonials. Our traders are taught to focus on improving their trading everyday. Searching forums for posts from anonymous traders will not make them a better trader. Defending the firm will not improve their trading. So you will not find our traders here.
For those who are new to trading I would encourage you to do your own due diligence about a trading firm. Go and visit. Talk with a firm's traders and their partners. Do not form an opinion on a firm based upon an anonymous poster from a trading forum. SMB is recognized for its outstanding intraday training program. Decide for yourself which is the best firm for you.
Steven Spencer
Partner
SMB Capital
Good post, Steven. Like I've always said, SMB is a very professional outfit. They are light years ahead of the churn and burn offices that give prop trading a bad name. Just because they are looking to make money from training fees and commissions doesn't make them bad guys. Aren't we all trying to make a few bucks?
Quote from spencermagic:
Steven Spencer
Partner
SMB Capital
This is a good example of how to respond to detractors on this board, as well as deliver information without annoying or deceptive shilling.
Good job, Steven.
(At the risk of helping those meant to be naturally selected out) Bottom-feeder LLCs should take note if they want to continue their sheister outfits.
Quote from Clubber Lang:
There isn't a single "great" trader who would bother teaching newbies anymore. Just not worth their time and missed trading opportunities.
That's the bottom line and no matter how professional SMB is, they can't change this fact. The numbers don't make sense. Any top trader that I know has stopped dealing with newbies years ago. Some will give some basic help & guidance, most are willing to help but they will not start committing their time & holding classes. It's just not worth it.
Quote from Anaconda:
That's the bottom line and no matter how professional SMB is, they can't change this fact. The numbers don't make sense. Any top trader that I know has stopped dealing with newbies years ago. Some will give some basic help & guidance, most are willing to help but they will not start committing their time & holding classes. It's just not worth it.
This is a relative statement and is only applicable to "any top trader" that you know. I know of a fair amount of guys that are very good traders that do offer at LEAST basic help and guidance to new traders. I am also a mentor and its not as easy as I initially thought it would be. Everyone has their own psychological battles. No, no one that I know holds classes either.
In any case I'm looking forward to seeing Mike when he visits my firm in a few weeks. I already RSVP'd for the event on that Saturday.
In initally reading this thread, I was pretty dismayed at what I read in regards to the early comments about SMB. Mostly because I have their blog in my RSS feed and they usually have very insightful posts. Many failed (I don't know of any successful traders) traders make disparaging, inaccurate comments about my firm all the time. It's not really my job to address these people, so I don't.
It's clear from their posts that their style of trading is very different from my own, but reading their blog has allowed me to expand the way I think about my own trading. Their posts have given me ideas which have spurred me to read different books and use some of my screen real estate differently. Now I'm throwing small size behind some of these ideas and if they show promise, maybe they could become a huge part of my arsenal.
Anyway, who cares how much anybody makes? I'm more concerned about the quality of ideas that they contribute to the pot. IMO, that is the great return that mentors get from helping to train traders. You help to train a trader, they become successful and before you know it they are contributing ideas that can make you thousands upon thousands of dollars. That's why it's worth it to me. To each his own.
Not sure if anybody notice this. Spencermagic registered on ET in Jan 2006. He said he only discovered ET recently when doing a google search. I smell a rat.
CET: It maybe my first post but I don't think my post was inaccurate. I am just wondering why a partner at SMB capital would lie about only discovering ET recently when he registered with ET 3 years ago.
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